Jakob Dylan (The Wallflowers)

0:00Well, let's just dive in because I'm sure you're busy. So reboot the mission. Scott, you know, I'm sure you've talked about this at nauseum with people already, but the clash influences on there and especially having Mick Jones on there. But what I wonder is, in the development of the song, did you have it written and then brought Mick on board? Or did you write it specifically with him in mind? Well, probably a little bit of both. You know, I just seen Big Audio down my play earlier in the year and was reminded what a thing got to talking about those influences. And yeah, we chased that with them in mind. It was only afterwards that we'd finished it that we'd realized, you know, it'd be a shame not to ask him to participate. And was he was he for right away? Did he jump into it? Yeah, he sure was.

0:45And what was I I'd like to say the world like to assume if he didn't like anyone and responded. Right. So, you know, I gave him the window to find a way to not be available. If you didn't like it, he was great. And what was it like in the studio? Did it just come naturally for him? Did it because, you know, joining a, you know, you've had a band for a long time. There's been some members changes and whatnot. But like you and Rami and Greg have a synergy together. Like you guys know what each other are going to play. So what's it like bringing in an outsider into into the studio environment? Well, I'd love to tell you that it was at all night. So I would, you know, we weren't actually together when he did his part, but. Oh, he just like carved out. Yeah, you know, it was all carved out for him. We left the space and I actually sent him two songs to give him a choice thinking like that.

1:33You know, we just didn't give really good many instructions. Just left space for him and just said, you know, whatever comes to mind. Works out quite well. Yeah. Yeah. In the song, you also shout out the band in one of the in one of the verses there. So the lineup is not the lineup that has always been the band. The band has like I mentioned earlier has been changing a lot over the years. So who's in this lineup and why are they in this lineup? Well, Greg and Rami and I have the core of it. It's the beginning. Right. You know, so when people suggest it's a reunion of some kind, I mean, I guess it is, but the, you know, the other members have fluctuated and changed throughout the years. But the core has always been the same. And, you know, we've got Jack Irons now comes with his own complete resume showing up on drums and he's been a real.

2:26Yes, Sir Mathis, who's toured with us for years, hasn't had a chance to make a record on guitar. You know, it's the most solidified and purposeful. I thought he played on red letter days. He didn't. No, Stuart didn't. He came on board right around. Oh, maybe that's why. Okay. See, I saw you play show in Calgary. Oh, God, three, four years ago now, but it was just you in the Greg was in the band too, I think. Was it a wall flowers? It was it was under the wall flowers, but it was like it was after the solar. It was after the first solar. Yeah, that was a version of the wall flowers there too. You know, it's just changed. I'd like, I'd like, you know, it doesn't work out the same for everybody to be in a group like you two or rolling stones or even the rolling stones are at the same. That's right. You know, it's it's not easy. You know, I mean, there's no shame on anybody for not being able to keep it the same throughout the years.

3:14That's not all of us. That's not all of our destiny. So, you know, it's changed, but the core of it's been the same. So the new record, you started work almost two years ago from under January 11 is what I've got here. Is that true? Yeah, we finished. No, started work started work January 11. That sounds just right. Yeah. So that's a long time. That's a long time to make a record. Oh, well, we were actually only worked on it for a month. I've been sitting here waiting to get busy for quite a while. Okay. Well, that's good. Actually, it took us. I think we finished it for weeks. Oh, no way. So that did take a while. And I read something about you saying one point the frustrating thing about making records is by the time you come by the time they come out, you've moved on. So have you. Yeah. Well, you haven't moved. No, you haven't moved on, but there's a holding pattern really afterwards that you've got to sit tight and not, you know, do all the stuff that we're doing right now waiting the music to come out, you know, to go out and go to work.

4:05Yeah, we've played a bunch of shows and then starting to get busy. But that's always in the sand. The band has always been record and then had to kind of wait six, eight months to show up. And what's that like? It must be a little frustrating and daunting because you want people, you make these songs for people to hear them, right? Yeah, it's okay. He's got to be patient. I mean, you know, the good news is it takes that long. I mean, if you didn't have, you know, support and a situation to do things, I guess you could put him out tomorrow night. But, you know, that's the good news. The bad news is it takes a little bit to get his things together. Yeah, got me thinking there. I saw you guys play a show. I think it was the night breach got released. You played in Toronto and it was just when Napster had just hit and I had already heard the record and I was singing along to every song in the crowd. But I noticed that no one else was because the record wasn't actually out yet.

4:54I think it's a really interesting dichotomy that we've been into in the business where, you know, that record actually was a timely record with that with the Napster situation. That was a record was released right at the peak of that curiosity. Yeah. That record was that that was a record that when anybody at that time was peaking with curiosity right then at that time. So it was an experiment for a lot of people to see if you could at that time to, you know, get a brand new release before it's out. And that record definitely was affected. I should say it's visibility with affection, but, you know, there's no sour grapes in it. Yeah.

5:39Well, yeah, it was interesting because I see I think that is is the strongest record. I love that record. I like it more than bringing down the horse. I don't know why it might have just been my age at that time, you know, how that things but. But I've heard that that's I've heard that similar thing from people that record was kind of a sleeper. And I do never visibility the one before it, but for those really paying attention. I think I moved more. Yeah, it was frustrating for you as a writer to know that you have these great songs, but there's, you know, there's the corn. There's the lymphiscuit. It was during that time of that's what, you know, when the wall when bringing down the horse came out. That that I don't want to say ban style rock and roll, but you know what I mean? It was was the big thing and then it moved to the heavier stuff just as breach came out. Okay, though, that's good. I mean, I abandoned myself and never really wanted to have been too concerned with operating at a time when it was timely.

6:25That's okay. If you're going to be doing something like we do that's for sure, you're going to have to just sit back and watch a lot of these movements and trends come and go and they're really fooling anybody. I mean, it was it's not the audience I'm looking for anyhow. Right. That's never going to change. And that's everybody that you've that is set examples along Jevity has had to put their head down and go right through those situations. We're talking about old stuff, but let's move on to the new record here because we are talking about reboot the mission or not reboot the mission. Glad all over. The guys were included more in the writing of this. I read is that true? Yeah, that's something they wanted to do. And that's something I wanted to help with. You know, I've just done just the bands records of, you know, I've had the burden of writing all the songs year after year and that's something.

7:10I've been, you know, I thought it was something I put on this and the band wanted to be more involved. So, you know, everybody's done a lot of things. I'm back around to trust in one another in a good way that it's an opportunity for everybody to stretch out and do things that maybe they didn't always get a chance to do it in the group. Are we talking lyrics or melodies? What did they help with? No, I read all the lyrics, but musically, you know, the structure of the songs, you know, I've always written them and they think they come in with the right could be right songs the way I do traditionally, which is how they would in acoustic. Well, just on a guitar piano by myself, when they come in, they come with an inherent structure that the band can really get to treat ourselves up from really not coming in.

7:55And we just played music hours and hours on end until we found situations that I could take all these lyrics that I brought with me. I'd purposely just held up my lyrics and said, I mean, use all these words to find places for them. I don't think the music and the arrangements is really going to have to affect too much and whether these lyrics are going to work or not. I had to tweak a lot of them, but write them in a traditional form. They made for different music that I would, I mean, I just can't do a song like we put the mission by myself on acoustic guitar. No, I wouldn't think so. No, it wouldn't really work. That really requires everybody. You said piano on guitar, do you write typically on guitar or piano? What do you tend to ground?

8:41Guitar really. Guitar, and is there a room or a place that you find comfortable writing? No. You can write anywhere. No, when I need songs, it doesn't really matter. A little bit of quiet always, I can do it in a subway, it doesn't really matter. You're able to do it on the road because I talked to a lot of guys that say they have real trouble writing on the road. They can compile ideas, but actually sitting there and trying to come up with a song. No, I compile ideas. It just takes, I just need a little more concentration. That's a little bit of multitasking or two different gigs entirely for me. Right. I love that too. I love that too. I love that too. I like titles that say something blue. A lot of people do that.

9:30I like that. Gun soldiers, desert, 21-year-old. I can't remember the quote, and I'm paraphrasing you here. Something but you not being a reactionary writer, it's not where your better stuff comes from. But that's kind of a reactionary song to the world, isn't it? Well, I don't know. I wouldn't say I'm not a reactionary writer. I wouldn't say I'm not a reactionary writer. It's probably what I meant. You get asked a lot about records. There's a reaction to the record before that or material before that. That I would say no. The story's fine. You have to find the stuff I'm interested in writing about. The medical departmentalized things. They still just arrive however they do. They usually have to say.

10:15That's all I can do is the story's not that much. You're a reactionary to the climate and the things around you. You'd like that to be different. I'm just right when they however they show up to me. I don't know if someone who sits down in a room and says I need a song to write X, Y, and Z at this point. It's still a record or somebody else's needs. A good song, you have to get out of the way and just let it show up. Right. For people that haven't heard the record, what else can we hear? I'm glad all over. Well, I don't know. I'm just learning. I did it. I did it. I was there. I got to sit back and kind of get some perspective. I know what I hear. Each time I hear different things, what I do hear is a band that sounds more energized and alive than it has been a long time. I know a lot of bands probably say that.

11:02I think you're supposed to give you out of line if you didn't. Oh, yeah. You wouldn't be in a good way. The band was not on fire. No, but it was a lot of hard work, but it wasn't laborious grinding work that really doesn't usually produce better results anyhow. It was tough work. It worked hard. But it just moved along. It sounds like that to me. It sounds like a band that is only good from points. You get a lot of muck in the room.

11:49I really felt was it was there ever a record that was a really what do you say? LaBori as an effort? Oh, yeah. Which one? Like, what just because the pressure to follow up the massive success? Yeah, there's a lot of struggle going on. A lot of tug of war happening. You know, that's you know, you know, after you, your band breaks, you know, everybody's listening.

12:35It's not the pressure. What other people want to hear. It's actually has more to do it. When you get to the next step, you got a lot of a lot of different people suggesting that they were the reason that they were the previous one was so worthwhile. But you know, guys like me, you write those records that bring on the horse that affected a lot of people. You know, I was just still one guy sitting in a room writing songs with no real idea who or if anybody was ever going to hear them. So the next time around, you know, it's, you know, I didn't struggle with the writing material. The record itself was the real struggle to make. It just was my recollection. That's a long time ago. But that was a great thing. You want to really live again anytime soon. But you know, I also hear the record, you know, I hear that what I just said is not just, you know, that ain't just a bad thing. It's just my recollection was I can't wait to listen to be done and have it sealed up.

13:23But now I listen to it. I don't hear that anymore. I hear a great record that it sounds like there's a lot of confusion going on. It sounds like there's a lot of friction. And that's sometimes what the best records are made from. Well, that's interesting. You say, now I listen. How often do you listen to it? Well, just occasionally the band is rehearsing something. We got to reference something or hear something on the radio. Right. You know, I hear it. And you know, the memories of what happened when it goes down. They kind of dissipate and you just hear what you hear. And it seems very simple. You know, when you're making it, it might take four months to record a song to listen back to it all these years later. It's three and a half minutes. You've forgotten. You mentioned rehearsing there. So you guys must be, well, you're playing a few shows. I think you got another few shows at the end of the month. Then you're on the road for a few weeks. Are we going to see you up here in Canada? Is there any plans for a Toronto day? Oh, yeah. We'll get up there. We're going to get everywhere.

14:10We're going to try to get our haven't gotten to or haven't been to in a while. Right. And what's the set list going to look like? How are you guys going to build it? Obviously, there's songs people want to know you got these new songs you got to play. So what stays in? What goes away? How does that work? You know, Jen, it really sounds good. You know, I don't think our careers that compartmentalized, you know, that we can't. I mean, you know, if the band is playing really well, I need these songs from 20 years ago or today should sit well with one another. And once it don't, probably won't complain not because they don't even sound good individually. But it's just got to kind of, they got to feel right together with where the band is currently playing. And there's nothing off limits. And I certainly have respect to the songs that people spend some time and spend their money and come down to a show, you know.

15:05I'm not going to play one headline as a waltz for people and really toy with their minds that way. I don't think that's fair or... That's interesting. And I didn't know if I wanted to bring up your dad or not, but your dad takes a different approach to the show. He screws around with the arrangements every night. Yeah. Well, I mean, well, we changed arrangements. We just take the song. The songs have a structure and the songs dictate what they mean. A good song is flexible, you know, that's all. But I don't have any game in mind of making them unrecognizable or really... You know, I think bands go through that. I think we went through that. I think people start to resent it. So they're coming to hear only a handful of songs and Jesus, we've got 50 songs and you just seem like...

15:53There's going to be a portion of your audience that does always want to do that. But then there's, you got about 20 other songs and that's set that you can do whatever you want to do. It's not asking too much of bands to play that song. You've affected people. You've found them at a time and you got a song that attached to... That's not... That's a gift to use an artist. I see it that way. Absolutely. You know, I ended up to embrace that. It doesn't matter. I just keep it, you know, I think it's simple each night. Are there any songs that surprised you that worked out really well live besides the huge hits? But like, I know, something off of Bell Sweetheart or Red Letterdays that you were like, oh, people really dig this song. That's crazy.

16:38Yeah, you know, I mean, we've... You know, before we go on tour, we don't... I know some groups really micromanage the cellists. We really don't. It's just instinct. You know, the best... You know, I just try to know everything about the band. We're able to play it. Then each night our cellists just, you know, yeah, center's around a certain number of songs. But it's kind of fluctuated. It's got to rotate to keep the band interested. And I think people appreciate that. I think that makes for a better show. I mean, we're going to nail a stumble on a few. Exactly. I mean, that's what people want to say. They like little flubs here and there. That's the best part. So it makes a show memorable. Are you going to throw into this? Yeah. Because I love the covers you guys do. Even that Beatles cover from... I think it was I.M. Sam. It was amazing.

17:27Right. I mean, you guys did a lot of covers. There was an era where I heard a lot of them. There was the Who, The I started a joke and the B.G.s and all the stuff. And now I haven't heard one in a while, I guess, besides... Well, you know, we did a lot of us early on when, you know, we did those songs a lot of those, you know, in between records. And we learned a lot of the songs because, you know, the band's break and they show up and they got one album with material that people know, which is usually 10 or 12 songs, which are set to 22 songs or so. So, you know, we always gravitated towards, you know, learning some other people's songs, which is, you know, that's all bands should do that. There's no pride in right and only singing your own songs. There's no use to doing that. I mean, Jimmy Hendrix did terrific with other people's songs. Yeah, sure. You know, that's all just, that's all opportunity and advantage for every band. And I think bands are better if they can play cover songs. I don't even suggest they reinvent them. Just play them like you heard them.

18:16And you know, that's how it should be done. Oh, yeah. And you walk while our eyes zit. Despite your... Yeah, you can't help it. You know, we do those songs. We don't... We're reinventing never pops and we just play the song. Yeah, break groups. You know, the Beatles started out as a cover group. There's not the wrong being a cover group. I think that's awesome. So when we get into those, we just play the songs. And it's unavoidable and your band is going to have some kind of a dynamic and characteristic that sounds like you're reinventing the song. But I've never gotten into those songs pretending to do that. I'm not going to reinvent the Beatles song. I mean, that's... No, probably not a good idea. And that's a lose lose. How come you haven't covered one of your dad's songs? That's got to be a conscious decision. Because there's been so many tribute records and whatnot. It's just simple. It's like, you know, maybe someday. I mean, it's, you know, I do one of the few that didn't.

19:04But at this point, you know, I'm just, it's, you know, be more of a freak show for people that it wouldn't do much for me or for... Right. It would be a really good way to do it. It would be a really good way to do it. And I just don't have any real purpose or gain to doing it. It would just be for other people. And I just don't have my career life. I would bet in that way. And I'm not looking to relive any... Be a part of anybody who's just out living something. And, you know, it would be novelty, wouldn't it? Yeah. No, I agree. I was just curious. Because there was a huge chimes of freedom record that came out. And I was like, I wonder if Jacob was the one on there. Yeah. You know, there's a time where maybe it was the time I could have done it just gotten it out of the way so people would stop wondering about it. And I kind of came and went. Now it's back to the freak show aspect. But it doesn't... It's never called me. It's never really... It's never been that... I've never denied it if I wanted to.

19:49I would. It's not that... You have to imagine the look and the gaze that you get. I hear you. Let's go back to the record. But, you know, I got my own thing going. I got my own thing. There's other people who need to do that thing. My own thing going on. I don't... You know, that would seem like an awfully desperate move. One last question about the record. Then we got to do five questions and I'll let you go. But I heard you listen to a lot of ZZ Top making this record. So where are we going to hear ZZ Top on Glaal over? Oh, you can probably hear it in the first song. ZZ Top is, you know, part of the process, I just said, when we were doing this record and I was wondering if going to Nashville about a BOCA songs was going to be a good idea.

20:48I just imagine Billy giving him showing up with 12 songs on his guitar. I imagine those guys getting in the room and going to the templates that they know well and just hammering out these songs until they found them. And each one of those records sounds exciting and fresh and organic to me. So I figured we could kind of do the same. Let's do find grooves and make songs out of it. I think at times we've over-complicated it and putting all the burden on the song. That's good. Well, and yeah, you got the band to do it with. Mm-hmm. Okay. Five questions. Five quick questions. One word answers. Oh, God. Okay. Yeah. Roder Studio. Leninger McCartney.

21:41I don't do not engage in that one or the Beatles versus Stones. There's room for all of them. I would never choose that. Cool. No, that's your answer. No, don't be sorry, man. How about nope? How did my answer? Nope. No, I mean, I asked the same five to everybody. So it's always nice to hear. Yeah, yeah. My answer to that is just nope. Just nope. Okay. Yeah. When you hear a song, what usually hits you first, lyrics, melody or rhythm. Song you've written, you're most proud of. Oh, nice. I like that one. In one word, the wallflowers. That's good.