Big Wreck

Part 1

0:00because we'll talk about the two of the trying to get this up this week and really trying to hit those west coast dates so you've done what seven shows uh... there about yet and how it hasn't been try no go ahead finish this year dot no i just don't have not even sure i haven't done account but it's it's around there it's that we're still sort of early on in the tour how's it going it's been going great uh... yet i mean the show so far been uh... progressively better from from our end i i can't really speak for theory at home i don't know but i think they seem to be going well for them as well uh... and i was it's a lot to try and pack as much music as we like to play during one show it's a lot to pack that into

0:46seventy five minutes and i'm sure they probably have the same issue because it's like this co-headlining things since it's hard to you know it's hard to build a set that keeps the serious fans and the sort of not the serious fans all happy you know you want to play songs that people will know but you also want to play and maybe a little less well-known like what what else what are the fans going to hear uh... well i think we're i think we've reached a sort of happy medium and we've been altering the set just slightly every night um... you know just that it's in certain spots where if i feel like i'm losing them uh... that is like uh...

1:33and then with you know we end up sort of the next night will be a little more just straight forward and and okay let's just give them heads uh... i tell i don't really know because it's hard to keep your finger on a pulse of of a crap before you go out you know sir does playing theaters change change the way that works for you guys i guess it would have to write all yet no soft cedars are uh... we did it around in the spring um... of all soft cedars um... or as many of those as we could get ourselves into uh... and that was definitely you know we built uh... we built a set around the fact that we need people to be sitting there uh... and and listening to a concert you know it's not going to a big a big rock show and it's like football practice in front of the singer you know you know

2:19so that was one thing this is uh... more of uh... a rock and roll thing where uh... you know we tried to try to pace the set so that it you know there's a whole bunch of everything and i think that's what we've arrived at there's a little bit something for everybody well yeah i mean you know you must play thorny songs to me it's basically the same band right but with brian involved now yeah essentially so so who made that first call because i find it so interesting that i mean i i'd listen to these records of yours years ago plan on the radio and then you start with the thorny stuff and then i see a big record or a big record come come by a couple months ago it's like oh my god so who made that first phone call how did that happen uh... i can i can i just missed them i mean we were so tight for so long and we were we were making college and we we started

3:07the band initially together uh... our our relationship with just after a big record um... all those relationships were sort of a good number of years and i just missed them and we both done enough and all of branch and you know see if there was still a friendship there so that's essentially what it was it wasn't uh... amen put the boys put the band back together to go play some shit with nothing like that it was uh... it was just a just because i missed my buddy

3:54right now that as we were hanging out is that that's how pollo from we had a thorny show and pollo couldn't make the thorny show uh... and he suggested brian because brian was like right there at the show when we got the announcement for this at minton play uh... and pollo's like oh i can't do that one to be in portugal and then he said well what do you want to ask brian to fill in so that's essentially how the whole thing i mean it's a long convoluted story but just everything sort of fell into place uh... that way and what about songwriting wise and musically together did you guys you know leave off where you come back to where you left off i said i still do the writing i still do most of the writing of my own always

4:44writing so you write where you are you know and from home and i had to do a lot of the work in the basement you know and just sort of where you can get a lot of the idea ideas down really quickly just you know throw them into a pro-tool session and save them for a later date uh... is that it though you're typically in the basement by yourself for the guitar or a bunch of guitars i would assume knowing you oh yeah yeah yeah you're right on piano or is it always guitar no oftentimes on piano but it usually gets usually gets moved over but uh... you know if there was an integral piano part that i might have it in the mix somewhere i'm just wondering for from a songwriting perspective you typically gravitate towards a guitar though oh yeah definitely and and and then you have because you play in so many tunings like i don't i don't even know where to start ask you about where where where what guitar you choose to pick up like how do

5:31you know i'm gonna go with b flat for this one that period years of doing it you tend to know what what uh... what tunings illicit what out of you you know oftentimes can stumble on a tuning while looking for an overdub for example you want your overdubbing acoustic guitars for just to lift the chorus a little bit but you want them to have as opposed to barring everything and courting enough we can just find these interesting tunings and interesting voicings you just sort of follow your ear and then before you know that you're no idea where you are from where you

6:18started you know you've got all these shapes and you've got all these new shapes and these new sounds and and then all you know that can you just leave that guitar there and move on to something else and then the next day you pick that guitar up and go we have what was it doing and then you you've got a whole new song you never know what about a song like i guess we'll go with albatross just because it was the first thing and it and it is in a different tuning as far as i can tell like there's 12 strings going yeah okay and and with two 12 strings and acoustic is what i'm gathering out of that mix so is that right or am i crazy uh... nope there's i think there's two electric 12s and so so so i know there's an acoustic 12 in there somewhere too so talk about coming up with that song and how do you pull that off live with

7:03just i guess i saw you with a double neck in the video yeah well there's three of us so that makes it easier you know um but even even with three guitar players uh there's still stuff that that sort of gets um not left out but sort of uh abbreviated or sure you know you find shortcuts that work appropriately live that don't lose the essence of the song and and keep things rolling along really essential to be heard in a certain second who's got an available set of fingers in in this change and you know you just sort of uh give you up the parts appropriately um but yeah it's a you know that's a that's a fun challenge and that's actually a lot easier than uh than than you would assume to you know uh playing the riff and playing behind my

7:52vocal and then and then going to the sixth string for the sort of slide solo bets you know you must get into plaza i mean people love the double neck they must get a plaza every night whenever you pull it out uh why i think for a lot of the big rec fans they know what's coming right now that one out there that's funny um but that makes me think about brian again because you're talking about you know you have three guitar players and and having people in the band obviously it might not change the song writing but it will certainly change the way the song sound because i mean everyone's got their own feel everyone's got their own vibe when they play so what is brian what does brian bring to your music that i guess i don't know maybe it wasn't lacking but that you that you missed and are now enjoying about having him on stage again with you um well he doesn't like you said he has a very particular feel and uh and five to his playing that i think compliments mind

8:39very well and live live it really is it really is a nice blend of three totally different voices on on the instrument more essential to me is is you know the more i think about it's just having you know because when you're in the studio making decisions about stuff and whether or not to put something in there or to try this or do that it's real easy to have a seed of doubt planted in there you know and then next thing you know an idea who that could have grown into something wonderful has been squashed um and i mean most guitar players are really opinionated not have certainly no exception nor is brian

9:27it's uh it's just nice that our opinions usually line up so if i have this idea about oh what if what if this was a harmonized solo and then some you know some schmuck with a suit on says no those uh those don't sell they're not those aren't big on radio right now um you know if brian wasn't around i i might be prone to listen to this guy it's yeah well i guess i guess so i mean i want to be current uh i'm supposed to as opposed to having brian there brian be like fuck that man that would be awesome and then it'd be like yes okay i was right you know um it's just nice to have my brother back in in that sense that it's like no no no no the initial gut instinct was right that's a and how are the songs living live now i mean because i talks to a lot of artists that and i i don't know if you're this way in the

10:14studio but but it's the song is done because it's done because it needs to be done maybe maybe you would have kept going to try and perfect it as it as it kept going so i have the songs evolved i guess from the newer record live and and move towards something that you didn't expect it to go to um certain ones have yeah like what i mean well glass room is is a is a very tame and sort of precise kind of 70s pop song live i don't think we played it in like uh there's some weird audience like when to get in thing like winners only we played it once there um but we played it to put it in the set

11:03i think we've done it once or twice but it's yeah it's turned into uh there's a little more there's a little more urgency to it there's a little more there's a little more aggression to it live i mean we have the ability to play it pretty much exactly like the album i mean tonally and we can cover all the parts um it just much and when you lean on it it just uh you know i love how they grow and and continue to grow forever yeah you know they and they shall certainly uh we don't have too much time here but so i because i found this out in research today but the velvet revolver thing so i was wondering how they all came about i guess you knew miles you guys played together at one point or there was some crossover yeah oh yeah yeah no i've known miles for years we uh we toured together when we was

11:51with mayfield four right um and have made remain friends since that was that must have been 98 oh wow okay yeah so how did the develop so how did that call come and and i heard you didn't want to do it because you i don't know you feel naked without the guitar and i know yeah it's not that i didn't want to do it it's just that i don't want to do it without a guitar right when i think that uh i think that i think slash was on this on the same page with me and you know and that and that we got along musically very well and we got along personally very very great guys like very very very um and genuine authentic dudes you know it's not uh it's not like that at all

12:40yeah just very real dudes and very down to earth and yeah it was it was a great few hours you know just sort of my voice sounded great over their stuff and i think slash thought it sounded great it comes out and is like well Ian can you try and feel without the guitar and i was like well no i just can't you know i can't imagine myself being one of those guys i could have given it a world but i just you know my shield and it's my from happening moves without a guitar on you know what i'm saying

13:26it's a very different piece to tackle the stage of having instruments exactly man i don't have any tambourine moves you know i went out it's always that guy in front of the mirror with the tennis racket that would have been me i was never the guy with you know sort of grabbing a hairbrush and being like watch this i was always more of a more of a case than a mech that's how i put it all right and that's how we'll close it that's amazing so we do something called five questions five quick questions one-word answers okay road or studio lennener mccartney when you hear a song what usually hits you first lyrics melody or rhythm melody song you've written you're most proud of

14:12i know it's all right albatross that one went number one so that's why i'll say albatross yeah and i loved them all equally but that one apparently everybody else loves it more so there you go in one word big wreck

Part 2

0:00And then the rest, I just want to be strats this time. It's hard to get away from these fucking things, but I'm going to try. Well, I know it's one of them, right? I'm one of them. Oh, a ghost. And I remember when we talked last time with the last record too, that I just love that thin, like, noffler sounding. The strap, yeah. The strap right into the amp. I like to juice it with a little bit of compression, though, and then. But it is a sound that for me is such a...

0:45Is it such a... Is it such a... Is it a come from noffler? Or is it a... Yeah, I would say... I mean, there's a lot of people that use that sound. Yeah. I just go to that all the time. But this thing is... Oh, yeah. Me too. I mean, it's such a huge noffler freak. So let's start with your guitar influences, maybe, since we're rolling. And Mark Nothler and going back. Yeah. Well, yeah, Mark Nothler has been huge. Initially, obviously, like, Communi-K-A and the first record, those two albums were huge for me. And that sound, which I later found out that was really, really similar to JJ Kale records that were out just before it. Like the sound of the albums is very... I'm like, whoa, this is the first two Dyer Straits records. And it's like, no, that's JJ Kale.

1:31What? So... But obviously, he's playing in his tone is what we're talking about here. Yeah. You know, you can try as hard as you can to nick it, but unless you're him, you're not going to do it. Is that what you try and do, though, when you hear your name? When I was young, that was the aim. When I... When I... With a Nothler or with a Ry Kooter or with a Stevie Ray or with a Steve Morse or an Eric Johnson, is... You try and you spend as much time as you can and you try to get... Okay, but what does it feel like to make those noises? And you know, you get... Try to get it as close as you can. And I can get pretty close to some of them, but it's... You know, there's still the more you learn, the more you realize you have to learn. So the closer you get, you realize that you're further away.

2:18You know, because those guys are just doing what they do. So eventually, I think going through all those phases of different guitar players, and I'm still doing it. I'm still trying to rip stuff from people and figure out how they're doing what they're doing. What do you learn on this record? I think it, you know, it's just sort of what hat are you going to put on kind of thing. For a solo, it's... You know, A, does the song need a solo? You know, does the song want a solo? It does it sound redundant or self-indulgent or whatever. And sometimes even that's cool. I've been guilty of that. Well, on stage it works, though. Yeah, on stage it... If the time's right and the vibe is there and the crowd's into it, then why not?

3:05But I think it was definitely... I mean, some soloists just write themselves. This has to be that. And initially, it's just the sound. You just know what kind of sound it's supposed to be. And then I know what's going to come out of my hands if I have that sound. Anything on this record that just kind of... Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. Most of them, actually. But it was... Some of them, I remember the solo for ghosts. I was all over the map trying to find... As I was initially going for sort of a Robin Ford thing. It was a little... It was bluesy, but it was a little more... There was more color notes and there was more... You know, I don't want to say jazz or outside. But there was a little more expensive phrasing, if you will. A lot of the term.

3:50And the tone was a little more semi-hollow and just a little bit of breakup. And I think it was Roberto Acapinti, the bass player, who came by and he's like, it's great. Just do a Stevie thing with it. Just Albert King it, man. And I was like, oh. Just grab a Strat and then it's just like 10 minutes later, you have a... That was the solo. And that's for the demo. And when we went in, it was just a lot more about mic placement. How do we get that nice? How do I get as close to that sound that is really hard? That's the sound that comes from the hands. For me, it's painful. Because of doing the solo... The first solo in ghost was painful. Because there's on a Strat with heavy strings and high action and you really have to lean in. Well, the second solo was on a sewer.

4:37And it's just that buttery... I mean, I can just play that thing for hours and hours and get the sweetest tones imaginable and almost no effort. And surprisingly, when you dig into the sewer, it gives you more back, which most guitars that play that easily, just kind of wither away. Right. On the opposite end of the question I asked you, what was the hardest one? Like what took the most rewriting and going over there? Solo-wise? No, like songwriting, lyrics, whatever took the long... I don't know, they all came together pretty quickly. Because they were all pretty much sketches of tunes and ready to be flushed out into real songs. So how long did some of these go back to the go back a while? Like ideas for a first.

5:22It's a bell over the map. All over the map. Some of the intros, the intro for diamonds. I mean, diamonds is a riff that Brian sent me over the phone. He's been sending me a bunch of riffs. He lives out in Sarnia. So while we were doing this whole process and pre-production and demoing, he's sending little ideas of anything else. And then I heard the one for diamonds and I was like, just Florida. I said, this is something I can use. And it was in even a weirder time signature than it is now. Like it flipped out. It was really cool. But for me, harder to follow. So I just sort of... Do you gravitate towards that stuff? The stuff that's harder to follow? Yes and no. I like the stuff that's for me is easy to just...

6:09It's natural. It's easy to listen to. And then if you dissect it, it's like, oh, that's the stuff that I get turned on by. Like across the universe or something like that where there's these weird turnarounds and things that just... They fit with the song. But if you actually sit down and analyze it, why does it get me off so much? Why do I love this? It's just the natural curiosity of a musician. So many people reference that song though. That's interesting. Well, because you don't notice it. And a lot of the Beatles stuff is like that. You don't notice that something really trippy just happened. Something feels weird, but that's what's happening in the song. Salisbury Hill, for instance, is an odd time signature. Sting doesn't a lot.

6:57But it's a... Yeah, I love that stuff. But I love it when it's like, oh, you just wrote a verse in 10. That's wicked. You know what I mean? As opposed to like you're just getting lost in the story and lost in the vibe of the song. Lost in the... I've heard you on stage, you still go back to the... When you're playing a song and I say, there's not muscle memory for you. You... And a lot of people don't do that. You get yourself back in the position when you were ready. Yeah. No, the other night, two nights ago in Sudbury, I started choking up during blown line hopin'. Like, I could... Towards the end of the song, I don't know what happened or why. It was just really overtired or, you know, it was a little raw emotionally and I... Yeah, I choked up and I couldn't really sing the last few words. It was weird. That's crazy. And I would do, you know, that's something that I had to think about for a few minutes

7:43afterwards. Like, I played this song a thousand times. And yeah, it's just maybe, you know, whatever thought would have, you know, kind of popped into my head on the outside while we were performing. And just like, man, this song still gets me after all these years and then that's all it takes. Oh, oh, oh. You know? Are there songs that you can't perform? Because of the... Oh, yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah. Like, what's the... There's songs on this new record that I can't even rehearse. So that's interesting. So you write a record knowing, you know, people listen to the record, but you also need to go on tours with the mainstream, right? Sometimes, like, you can get past it, but I don't like to. You know what I mean? The emotional connection to something is... I mean, what are you doing if you're not... If you're not that committed to it on that level? Then why am I charging people money to come watch this play at tune?

8:31You can just listen to it at home. Yeah. You know, but there are songs on the record that we're real hard to get through. Like what? On this one? Oh, yeah. Like, we're a baby, for instance. Was it... Was it challenged? That was a little slower, right? Yeah. And that's a cover. I'm Robinson song, but it's been a part of... And it's hard for you to get turned into cover. Yeah. Interesting. Well, it's been so sort of like woven into the fabric of my life since I was a kid. Like, my dad came home with the 12-inch single version of it. I mean, there's a bunch of different versions of War Baby that he did. And that's the version that I gravitated towards. And I've been looking for a way to do it for years, like since college. So what made it feel right this time?

9:17That's interesting. I don't know. I just... I'm sure let's try it. Because I've tried it before. I've tried jamming on it. And I was like, well, let's try it. We just tried it and it started working. And I sort of... I just saw I changed the groove up a little bit for the chorus and just added some extra background vocally things. And instead of the sax solo, I sort of mimicked a lot of his lines on the sax solo with the guitar. And I don't know. It's just... I had such a well-written song. The lyrics are just... The lyrics are brilliant. And they cut right through me. And to sing them with any authenticity is... It's hard because you kind of have to go to that place.

10:03And it's... It really is like walking the tightrope. Because if you go too far or one way or the other, you fall off. And you know, now it sounds like you're thinking. And now it's either that way or you're trying not to. It was really hard. But I think it... For me, that's what I want out of that song. You know what I mean? That's what I want to feel when I listen to it. Hopefully that translates for other people. But I'm old enough to not really care if... Do you know what I mean? That's what I think it's all about. When did that change? I don't think it's ever changed. It's always been there.

10:48I've just sort of focused on other things at different times throughout my career. If you don't call it that. I feel like young bands probably care more about the image or not the image. But you want people to please, right? Until you get that success. And you're like, oh, you know what? People dig what I do. You may never get the success. Now I'm at that point. You know what I mean? If I'm not going to get the success, I'd rather be happy. You have the success. You have the success. No. To a certain degree, I'm able to scratch out a living doing music. So that to me is success. Absolutely. Especially doing music that I love doing. I'm not playing music that I don't want to play. Which is all the... That's winning the whole thing to me. But yeah, if I'm going to do the same sort of thing, like still struggling and getting

11:40by and just the word millions and millions and millions of people do, if I have the choice to be able to make the music that I love making or have to do things that are compromised for maybe a shot at getting that, now everyone's going to love it. Say, I've heard you say you did that though a little bit. Yeah. And I think the thorny thing was a conscious that that's what we were going for. So how do you purposely write a hit song? Like what was it you're willing to do? What changes in the process? There's a billion theories. For you. Like when you... I don't know how to say it. I don't know how to say it. But you have. Yeah. That's just, hey man, you know. I would never have picked Albatross to go number one. I would never have picked that as a hit.

12:27I had this beautiful song and a beautiful centerpiece for that record. But that goes against the grain of any rule that I've heard about writing a hit song because you need to hit the chorus within the first minute. I don't even start singing to the first minute. There's two guitar solos in it. I don't know. I mean, I know there's all the theories. I've heard all the theories on what you need and to write music for the big machine. That's just not my bag. It's hard for me to even play that stuff. It's hard for me to listen to it. Yeah. Yeah. Once you've swam in the deep end, it's tough to, you know, I don't want to be in a waiting pool. No, I get it.

13:12I feel like you have to play those songs live because people do want to hear them. Hi. Well, yeah. Like a song like Come Again, for instance. Yeah. That's like eight minutes when we play it live. Maybe more depending on if we go off in a tangent. So it's, we sort of, because I think the impetus, they'd like the initial spark for the song is usually genuine. It comes from the right place for me. And it's just sort of the system that it goes through to become something that's going to be consumer friendly. You know what I mean? So that, chop that, words too big, that chords too expensive, whatever, whatever. Simplify, dumb down, whatever you want to call it, to play the game. You know, you take your beautiful little essence of an idea and then bastardize it.

14:04And it still doesn't, you know, get you to have a huge front gate and, you know, an armed security guard and a private jet. This is a pretty nice room though, man. I like it down here. I can spend some time down here. Oh, this is just my, this is the only room in the house that's like this. Well, actually since we're in here, I should bring this up because people would probably be like, what, what the hell are they? Where else is, this is my basement. This is my man cave. This is where, you know, I guess we're most of the songs are written, right, and record. Yeah. Well, it's hard to do when everyone's yelling and screaming upstairs. Yeah. But I'm noticing a lot of electrics and just one, I guess the Dober too, but just one acoustic. Yeah, I know these most different, there's a couple more acoustics in the back. No, I did anything in the back before.

14:49Yeah. You ever go back to piano to write? Yeah. Because I heard you started on piano. Yeah. My life is something I wrote on piano. Right. Yeah. One of these. But it's not, but it's not, it must be nice change to go to different instruments. I know, well, I thought it was an interesting, you know, I thought it was an interesting flavor to add to the record. I thought that would have been a great first single to go with. Like the new single from Big Rack and those nice key piano. But you know, this is not, that's not my area as I said before. But yeah, you know, it's fun to go back to, but it's also a bit of a, it's a bit of a sore spot because I used to be good. You know, now it's like, I'm just like really sort of hamfisted. You know, my daughter's coming up quick on that.

15:37Oh, really? Oh, yeah. So, you know, I had, I did, she came to the studio and what song is she on? She's on my life. She sang the, she sang the back up. And the, and the doo-doo's, she took the really high octave. We had to actually, we mixed her down a bit because it was, it's almost like chipmunks, you know, it's such a high little voice. That's awesome. But it's nice because it sort of stretches that part out a little. Yeah, so they're talking about harm, come with me, that harmony bridge. They, oh, I love that. Thanks. So, it's different. Yeah, that was a, that was a Nick idea. Initially, we had sort of a guitar solo thing. Same, same changes. Like we would sort of change the chords a little bit from, from the rest of the song. We changed the chords a little bit and there was a little guitar thing.

16:23It was a couple of background vocals that were sort of doing some ooze. And then Nick, right before we went into the studio, we were doing pre-production. He was like, no, no, no, no. All vocals. And I knew it exactly. I knew it, at least I hoped what he was saying. Was like, you mean that we were doing like a queen beach voice thing, right? And he was like, yep. I was like, yeah, that's going to be so great. And I just sort of imagined it in my head. It was really easy. Like I just sort of went in and just started humming. It's all you. Yeah. It took like an hour. It's almost like they're putting it together as low as I can go and as high as I can go. And everything in between. Yeah. It's different. I mean, it's nothing that hasn't been done before. But it's always nice to hear though. Yeah, it's, it's, you know, made me love the tune.

17:08You know, I was, because initially I was like, it just sounds like a police rep and it's a little too down the, down the center for me. But now it's just something else. I don't know if this applies. But you were just saying, but how is having three guitars in the band change things? Like is it hard, is it easier to kind of be like, here you take this part, I'll take this part. Yeah. Because generally the guys aren't really around when we're doing the pre-production and demoing and oftentimes the recording just because it's all like, it's all often about time, you know, and getting everybody in the same place. And then I'll, here's, no, I was doing it over here. And this has this sound. But playing it live is like it definitely, you know, it definitely takes a load off because

17:54it does, I don't necessarily think differently when, when putting stuff together in the studio. Like oh, well this is going to be easy because we can take that, that, that, that. There's still stuff that we have to cheat live. So one guy is going to have to sort of play this half of this part and then go on to that part for the next section and then we swap. And there's a lot of choreography that goes on between myself and Paul and Brian to try to get this stuff to translate live. Is that rehearsal part fun? Trying to figure out who's going to take that part? It can be. I don't know what I'm talking about. It can be so not really okay. But there's a lot of train wrecks, you know. But yeah, when we get it right, it's quite a thing. Because I mean, three, and those guys are phenomenal guitars. So it's, you know, it's a joy to play with them. And when we get it right, it's, I don't think there's any ego or anything like that involved

18:41at all with this band. So it's, you know, it's just all about the song and getting the performance right. Speaking of performance, we talked about Slash and Velvet Royal for the last time. But I noticed you're playing a show with Slash and Kitchen in the summer. You think something? I don't know. I don't know. And a little jam on stage. I don't know. Well Miles is an old friend, right? Like him and I go way back in that. And I, you know, yeah, I love Miles and he's just such a phenomenal singer. I've gotten a lot of tips from him over the years as far as maintenance goes. I've never taken like a vocal maintenance. Yeah, I've never taken a vocal lesson, but he's like a trained dude. And he knows a lot about how all this stuff works. What's as big as coffee is for you. That's your drinking option. Yeah, as I'm having a cough.

19:28But I don't have to sing tomorrow. Right. But no, it's, I don't know, because of Miles is his saying on our stuff before. Where's he? What's he on? I was going to do on the second album. Oh yeah. I just, I needed that beautiful voice in the bridge and then it was, and then it was a big scream-a-thon at the, at the end of the song where I was just going to do my best adultery or rather plant stuff. And then I asked Miles, I was like, you want to do it with me? And so we both were just screaming at the end. It's a lot of fun. But I can't scream as high as he can. Wow. But no, I mean, who knows? I doubt it. Right. I doubt it. Who knows? People wonder how things. Yeah, but you never know what the setup is backstage and what the vibe is and how sound

20:16checks are going. And there's always, there's always some hiccup. Do you look forward to that stuff? I know a lot of musicians don't like to just jam. Like if you're sitting in a circle, I can't fire and people are just like, oh, no, I don't want to do that. I love it. I've never been very good at just sort of, you know, playing a Stones tune or something. You know what I mean? Like I've never been, it's like I can, if I know the song, if I know the song, if I heard it before, I could pretty much figure it out. Like I've got, I've been lucky that way. But with words and verses and, you know, I'm not going to sit down and play Brown Eyed Girl or whatever, like it's just not. But no, as far as like picking a groove and picking a tune that's, you know, like what for us would be a standard, like a rock and roll standard.

21:03And then just, Miles used to come up at the end of every set for Big Reckle when he was with Mayfield 4. And then we'd have him up because not a lot of people know, but he's a Ripping guitar player. Like Ripping. No, I didn't know that. Oh, he's unbelievable. And she's not too. The opposite of what you're wearing did something for. Yeah, exactly. I was like, Miles, she'd have done that. But no, is he, I, yeah. And so, yeah, we'd just have a lot of fun with it. And just, you know, calling and answering and trading floors and cutting heads and all that stuff. Nice. So, yeah, I love doing that. Guitar players usually are usually like that. I'm not at that, like cutting heads and all that sort of pissing contest stuff. It's just sort of, I've outgrown that. No, it's just about the enjoyment of, you know, giving somebody else, you know, the stage

21:53and seeing what they do. But having said that, when somebody gives you a little poke, it's like, all right, it's on. Let's do this. Let's see what you got. Well, let's see what you got with this. We do some called five questions. All right. Five quick questions. One word answers. One word answers. Roder Studio. Both. He said the last time. Landon and McCartney. McCartney. When you hear a song, what usually hits you first. Lyric's, Melody, or rhythm? Melody. If someone's never heard Big Wreck before, what song do they start with? I digress. Tract two on the second.

22:40In one word, Big Wreck. Big Wreck. Coffee. That was a good word. Yeah, coffee. No, no, no. Last time you said authentic. Authentic. Okay. Let's say Big Wreck. Quality. Quality's good. Quality. Usually I close it there, but I do want to ask you just book ending the record with a reprise reprise. I've never known how to say that word. We were saying reprise and I heard somebody else say reprise. So no one knows the answer to that. Why the decision to do that? I can't do it the same tune.

23:25Or just I guess the chorus of the other one. Twofold. Initially, the acoustic guitar part was something that I was going to add on to the chorus of the main version of the song. And then the voicings are just, I mean it's only in standard tuning and the voicings are really pretty. It's only in standard tuning. Yeah. The song is in like drop beat flat. It's ridiculously low. And I just thought it would be nice to have something up here, but that's being taken care of by some other ding dongs, heavily affected guitars. So the acoustics didn't really fit. And then I just soloed the acoustics and the vocals. I don't know, it was like, I'm going to go to the hats tonight. It was nice.

24:10And we didn't want to end the song with a cover. And then I was like, well now I want to do a whole acoustic version of a place to call home. But you're going to lose the weight of that sort of bluesy verse. It doesn't really translate to standard tuning acoustic. So yeah, I think it's just dreamy and beautiful. It's a lovely send off at the end of a record. We were thinking maybe Hidden Track or whatever, but that's an old trick. So I want to just put it on there and call it what it is. A reprise reprise. Who knows? Reprise reprise. I'm not sure. We'll never know. Maybe people can tweet us answers. Yeah. Hashtag Reprise Reprise. Something else.

24:56I don't know. Thanks again. No problem. Cheers. Thank you. Yeah. My pleasure.