The Weakerthans

Part 1

0:00John Stephen from the weaker than is live in the studio. How are you guys? Very well. Thanks. Yeah, where you guys coming from? You're coming from out west, right? Yeah, we were playing Victoria Vancouver that area there How are those shows? Are those the first shows with the new record? No, we just did kind of the whole left-hand side of the continent there Nice. I started on September 25th the new in Minneapolis on the day of the base of the record No Winnipeg show for the day of the release. No, we're saving that for last. Yeah Yeah, I noticed you're skipping over you're doing like Regina and taking a little break during the States Europe and then Winnipeg Yeah, yeah Home town Great big hometown Christmas show. Yeah a couple of days before Christmas to that'll be nice big show tonight Yes, Mac Hall. Have you played it before? Yes, we have a couple. Oh, yeah, okay Yeah, and big shows tomorrow and Wednesday solar tomorrow is Wednesday with their way Tuesday. Mm-hmm The holiday screws everything up my hands. Yeah, Wednesday big sold out show in Edmonton tomorrow. Yeah tonight sold that I think is it really?

0:50That's amazing. I think they're all sold out. That's nice All the Canadian dates are selling out. Hmm awesome Last time we talked John you said it's gonna be a while but and this was like last summer It's gonna be a while before you hear anything new or we're not doing anything. Mm-hmm. And then this comes out Yeah, yeah, was it all just written and recorded like super recently? No, I mean we'd been working on the songs for a while But didn't think we really had a whole record We weren't kind of certain that we did so But we went into the studio and kind of came out with a full link so it was quick to you right? It was like two weeks some two weeks. Yeah 15 days. I think we did 15. Yeah, yeah 15 years of tracking Yeah, anything written in the studio was everything kind of no everything was pre-written But I guess arranged in the studio quite a bit. Yeah, actually so come where's the was basically oh, yeah, that was a studio creation

1:39That's a different song for you guys. It's the first like spoken word tune almost and they are you playing banjo Steven Jason? Playing banjo Jason the drummer playing I didn't realize you playing doe bro on that one. Yeah, what's a doe bro? I know it's a resonator guitar. Oh, yeah, okay Yeah, the metal pan. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it sounds cool. It's different How why did you decide to do that in the last line of the song is my favorite line on the record? I think it's just so ballsy my face is my mask for a gold. It's amazing Well, that was yeah, that was a quote actually forbade him from Well, he his was my face is my mask like he he always said that he was the last goaltender come porcally was the last goaltender to not wear a mask oh really in the NHL that's awesome So I think it was the last one but yeah one of them. Yeah, so But yeah, it was just kind of a fun thing to do

2:28Yeah, it's kind of always something we've thought about doing and we were kind of working on this instrumentally thing and then And then it just kind of fit with the poem. So that's cool. What was I gonna say about that too? He died last winter. Is that what made you write the song? Yeah, it was already kind of written in all just worked out No, it was all around I wrote it right around his His death. Were you a big fan or just something you read in the I was and all those also the obituaries were really good and and I was really interested in George Plimpton is writer who I reference in the song as well. I'm in the poem and he died last year as well So I'd been kind of reading him and then it all kind of came together Just seemed like the right thing to write about so cool. Yeah It's it's very this records different. So was the last one I mean there was song like I mentioned earlier Hospital Vespers with it with the tape loops and stuff going backwards

3:15But even the single civil Twilight in this record you got that weird intro. What is the intro? It's guitar fed back through It's just a microcar. Yeah, I think it's not a microcorgot. So just it's just a synthesized guitar Yeah, sounds cool What made you kind of take different sounds on this record instead of the straight-up stuff that you guys have usually known just for kicks just For fun, not an unconscious decision just kind of like oh, thanks. Oh, we're just kind of having fun this time Yeah, I think a lot of that stuff was just improvised in this video I remember when we we actually cut that little guitar riff out ourselves with a producer was out of the studio and threw it on the front Huh, I saw and he came back and goes I can't believe you're doing that Well, it's a surplus value. I love that tune and it kind of reminds me of Jackson Brown's running on empty

4:03It's like the perfect road to you you're talking about going on a flight sleeping through the flight You don't even wake up till the cab driver comes. Mm-hmm. Are you Jackson Brown fan running on empty? Like did that go through your minors? That's just me. Yeah, I can refer all that song No, I don't know that one for the road you guys should listen to it on the bus one of these days Do it for sure the bus. Yeah, we will running on empty running on empty. Okay. I'll check it out Yeah, you should almost John Prinish. Oh, you're big. Well. Yeah For sure for to take yes returns on this record the first character have seen you kind of a ball of an away Yeah, how come I'm not sure I just kind of kept thinking about that cat and and thought about Yeah, well, I guess and I just thought it fit in with this record is kind of our most realistic record It sounds I think the the sound it sounds like us and also I think the lyrics are kind of

4:51I don't know. I think of them as kind of realist and I was thinking about this cat that Would probably leave so the cat doesn't really come back. Yeah, well she explains her departure right? Yeah, how come she loved I guess because her owner couldn't change and recognize the things That were good in his life and tabby returns as well. Yes. I think he brought that back to you You said the records. It's you the most right as we just said well, I think it sounds like us them Yeah, I think yeah, I think the only ones do oh, yeah, they do yeah, but I think this was the one where we kind of I Think we really caught our stride and kind of figured out just what we sound like as a band for better for worse in the studio and and And this is it. There's not there's not a lot of polish on it. It's just really it's just really straightforward

5:39And it's who we are okay. It's because we worked with this there's time we worked with Ian and we and We're kind of refining the process of working with each other almost and then we returned to have Darryl Smith who mixed left and leaving mixed the record. Oh, okay I think we didn't work on last one we When we brought the record back to him we sort of had I think we gave him just a slight direction I think he knew what he wanted out of the record because he was familiar with working with us Mm-hmm. Perhaps that's how we came to this sort of a refinement or something. Yeah, right? You're right is that what you felt the need to bring Jim Jim Bryson's on the road with you guys now? Yeah, he is to add I guess all the stuff that's been added on this record. Mm-hmm. Is it nice to have a What's remember now? 50 I yeah, but yeah, it's really nice to have Jim with us and and it's been a it's been a real kind of

6:25Pleasure to have that extra aspect on stage and also just the camaraderie and he's opening a couple shows to you Right he's on the on the east coast of the United States. He'll be opening the show. Okay, not tonight and Europe. Yeah, yeah Not tonight. Oh, come let him play some songs guys No answer I guess we can do that all right. So we have to bump up like this third time. We'll play later No, what time he gets on tonight? I'm not sure what time we're on a 9 3m 9 p.m Yeah, we might wish it a little bit because we're gonna go for dinner. We're going for dinner. Yeah, nice So if we're like the audience notices Patiently we're like yeah, we're waiting for a coffee Utilities rerecorded completely different than the yeah, the word what's it help a day in the life?

7:11Yes, yeah, how come what what'd you guys did? We talked about it and redo it kind of I thought it was kind of a nice closer for the record thematically and it kind of I Think I think yeah, and it was just a fun song to experiment with we've been playing it for many years and oh, yeah How old is it? Hmm three three years old? Oh, so almost reconstruction say time almost not quite yeah, but yeah, it was around it was in the works around there We did we didn't actually have a good arrangement of it. Yeah, we didn't have a good arrangement at that time And I like the arrangement of it now. It's got like a 50s number almost kind of kind of feel yeah Yeah, almost show the tempo Yeah You're right lyrics are melody first but different each time yeah, yeah, there's no real formula for it I'm not I didn't think so but yeah No, it's it's a interesting question and I asked that of other songwriters, but for me. It's yeah, it's I don't know it's

8:02Every time is different so on this record to every song is kind of a bit. Yeah. Yeah, it was different for each one How's it work for you guys the melodies at least like the guitar melodies? Do you come with stuff Steven or is it all you John? No, it's it's everyone but it again It's different every time it's like for every song there's a different approach for the writing so yeah everything So it comes out of different ways like this record I know Jason had some keyword parts that he played and that influenced what I played mmm. Yeah, that's true, right? Sometimes John like I always look for my parts within what John's playing he always has it but there's always a melody Jason plays the broken social scene sometimes too doesn't he does. Yeah, have you guys ever thought about that if they ever asked you To join with them. Yeah 13 people on stage I don't think that's punk rock. Let's do punk rock

8:48Kind of gotten away from that a little bit though I mean you got old songs like a side and watermark those and I guess relative surplus value kind of has it Yeah, it's and the theme of the lyrics are but the music isn't as much as it used to be. Yeah, it's hard for us to say It's not yeah, no I know to say it's kind of Having a perspective on that is really difficult because we're in the midst of it, but yeah And I guess it's punk rock if you say it's punk rock, right? That's that's the whole mentality of it, but most people think of that heavy sex pistols clash kind of stuff. That's punk, right? Right, right. Yeah The clash had like reggae the clash where the clash where everything the clash the grace well not the greatest in the whole time But there are could be could be more than the Beatles or Zeppelin definitely Zeppelin More than Zeppelin definitely more than Zeppelin, but not the Beatles and maybe not the Beatles

9:34Who else up there for you Beach Boys? Yeah, sure Limited Beach Boys limited beat Brian Wilson stuff. Yeah sounds and the kind of surrounding records. Yeah, yeah You heard the new stuff Yeah, would you like the new Brian Wilson? Yeah smile a bit of it. Yeah. Oh, yeah the smile box that I had that at home. Oh, yeah, it's cool Yeah, night windows right one of the first songs right now remember you played it last summer Tell tell people what that song cuz we're about to play that sure this was a song that that Well, I wrote the lyrics for it when when we were I started the idea for it came from I was in London, England And I went to the Tate Gallery Saw this retrospective of Edward Hopper paintings and I came out thinking that I would write 12 songs about Edward Hopper painting

10:22Oh really, but I got two of them done night windows and Sun in an empty room. So it's inspired by painting. Yeah, yeah That's cool. I know it Sun in an empty room you mentioned that I don't know how this this got me thinking about it But the cover of the record looks like ice floating away on sure kind of like a global warming thing Yeah, is that it was is that what it's for? Well, there's certainly part of that in there I think but yeah, it's it's also yeah the ice breaking up. I think of it as kind of yeah How are you feeling about stuff lately? I know I know you're you're publishing companies is pretty left wingin And I'm very left wing as well, but You think Harper's doing a good job. You think we're in a we're in a good state right now. No I Don't want to go to politics, but yeah, it'll be fun. We'll talk about it later. Sure sure what are you reading at the moment?

11:11I'm reading oh I'm reading the new Gary Shane Gart novel called absurd absurdist Dan which is great. It's great absurdist and I like to your Colm. Yeah, it sounds like it's very good. Yeah, how do you decide books for the publishing? Are you still the day to day publishing? Yeah, yeah still day to day. Um, it's a it's a process. That's kind of like songwriting almost it's it's really hard to say how a book Arrives, but you know you find people you have an idea for a book and you get people to write it Are you find books that people have written and send to you and and it's yeah? It's always different and exciting so is it always been something you want to do like politically at least? Mm-hmm Yeah, I think I think there's a real politics to just books in general. I think that they're

11:58They're great objects for change. Yeah, cuz we don't see many humor novels under the publishing company. I guess not There's possibility for one though. Oh, yeah. Well, my dad wrote one. I'll send it your way. Oh, you should Yeah Hey, well, no, no, I was interested anyway And remember last time we were talking about it and I asked you last time to if you ever considered writing a book You said no, and what about a collection of the songs or short stories or the meaning behind the songs that kind of thing? I think people would be interested. No Just talk about it on the radio from here and there the songs the songs are what they are. I think this they they I wouldn't want kind of Have any I Wouldn't want to say anything about them more than I've said really I mean I like speaking about them Mm-hmm. Do you wouldn't want yeah, it's because some musicians do some don't know I really I enjoy it

12:46I mean it's fun to talk about the songs, but yeah, I don't think that I think I think they I wouldn't want them published in a book form or anything like that I think that yeah, I write poems that perhaps would would fit into that but But at a at a glacial pace You mentioned you know talking about the songs you enjoy it Some of the meanings of the songs at least when you're playing them live or when you thinking about them God, I got to remember the lyrics have they changed for you at all. Yeah, like I think that's the great thing about being in a band is you get to play them every night and And every context is different you know the context you put them in in the in the set Changes their meaning and the and the audience you're playing for

13:34Changes something about the songs and and that's that's a real privilege that I think Is one of the great things about writing songs is that you get to do that? I mean a lot of other art forms you don't so it's gonna be fun that way I don't know for you Stephen This is like when he brings lyrics in and you know You hear them and you think about them and then as time progresses this change for you as well Or do you don't even think about it just tell your riffs? It's weird If I The context of the songs over time to change or do you change your riffs around at all? Or do you try and stick true to form in the record? Oh, I like I think when we play them live it feels like we're reliving the saw the process of creating the songs once again And when we're finding them into second chance, you know almost like you make a recording

14:20Yeah, play them live and you actually almost you're like the recordings an example of them And the live performance is another rendition with other opportunities and And I don't know it's and it's and it all I think it changed also interesting how the songs will change Improvied like we had provides on small parts and they'll Develop themes that are just just made up on the spot between us live. Oh, that's cool Was your brother did the artwork is that right? My brother does the graphic design that's cool for all the records. It's just a new one all of them He's telling me except for a fellow. Oh, yeah, that was way back when oh and Jake don't know Yeah, Jake left an eating so the last two last ten years now, isn't it fellow is it your ten year? And over yeah, it is yeah, is there big plans for that or is just last year I

15:06Was last it was last February was our actual ten year anniversary Yeah, I from the first practice or from the first record from the first show the first show in Winnipeg Yeah, yeah, that's hometown gig still funny. I'm going back to school. I don't know someday. Yeah, maybe in my 50s You 50s someday 20 years from now. Yeah, it's cheap. Yeah, I got the scene just kind and waiting for that five questions I want to see if the answer the same last time we get you answer him to just five quick questions one word answers Okay, I bought her CDs CDs I bought a letter McCartney McCartney You embarrassed to say it last time I was I still am but still true Steven Alcohol and marijuana alcohol alcohol song you've written your most proud of I wonder I want to say as a distance I would say that I'm more I like

15:56Oh, yeah, really? Okay. He hasn't done anything as good tunes. Yeah, that's right I'm gonna go for Our tournament of hearts. I like night windows these days. Yeah. Yeah, it's cool I want to talk about tournament of hearts in a second. I'm glad you wrote that up in one word the weaker lens Rock confusion rock confusion rock and confusion Turnipits are it's always that one song in the record uniquely Canadian one great city last time obviously and this time It seems like it's tournament of hearts because it's curling sure you talk about the 50 50 in it I think that's uniquely Canadian. Do you feel the need to write about Canada? No, I don't know it just kind of comes out Yeah, no, I feel the need to write about About localities and regions, but I don't think about it in a national Context really I think about it in in the context of Winnipeg

16:43Specifically that song or actually that song's probably set in a smaller town than Winnipeg in Manitoba somewhere But yeah, I don't really think of it that that in a national character way But I'm sure it probably fits in that way somehow. Yeah, I'm sure the fans think it and yeah Yeah, I'm excited every time I hope so yeah I wonder if that works as well for fans like in the states or if they don't even care does it just goes over their Kind of thing we talk about it in the state so we're kind of missionaries for curling in the state Oh, yeah, yeah, are you guys curl or is it just happen to be something you wrote about now? We both curl. Yeah, yeah, are we good? No I got we put on the same team for a couple years

17:35Basically and last year we got tied for first in our division B division B division And our in our after work league that we play with my dad in yeah And John was trained by Colley what Lalliburty Connie Lalliburty who's I have coach champion Wow so step off Yeah, we're missing a lot of the current right now. I'm gonna squeeze off again I get a I'm officially on my dad's team as a fifth for this area even though I'm kind of absent Mm-hmm. Well, you'll be back soon enough, right? You got a couple weeks break. Yeah, well We got like 10 days off one to seven days or something Mm-hmm off between each leg of these tour but after Christmas we'll be able to curl Yes What are the plans for the rest of the or I guess for next year now curling just curling still there sit at home and curl

18:21Nice. What's what's Christine doing? I actually got a record coming. Yeah, she's got a record coming out in November November the sixth You plan it or just a little bit on it. Yeah. Yeah, and our sound my cam Produced it and our bass player Greg played all over it. Oh Yeah, we're excited about it. It's really great. Yeah, can't wait to hear it. Yeah. Yeah guys. Thank you so much Thank you. No more four years between records Okay, and I and hopefully be back in the fall in the spring for the junos because they're here and Alternative alternative alternative album of the year kind of thing. We'll see what happens see I'll be great always pleasure Thank you, sir. Sweet

Part 2

0:01Well John K. Sampson, welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Always like when you come in, because there was different songs for us that I wouldn't expect you to play. It's fun. I get to play songs that we don't usually play live songs. Well, you can't really. You're not going to just bust it. Have you ever done that in a show? Just play acoustic? No. Actually, no. I never have. A lot of people do. You never have? No, I'm better. I'm more comfortable with electric guitar. Well, you come from the punk rock genre. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's true. I don't feel as comfortable on a stage with a set of, and you usually have to mic it and put it through an amplifier. It seems like a hassle. You got to put your electric through an amplifier? Well, yeah. But I mean, electric's are meant to go through an amplifier. And acoustics, I always feel like, eh.

0:47Just be on the beach. Yeah, exactly. Or on a cliff or something, just playing. Yeah, yeah. I'm in a little room like that. I like it. Well, Mac Hall tonight, along with your favorite band in the world, so I'm told, the Constantine's. Right, yeah, yeah. You, so tell me about them and how you hooked up with them, and why you're such a big fan. We did a tour with them of the states, probably, I want to say like 10 years ago. It was a long time ago. It was right after their first record came out, I think. Could have been later than that. Oh, a while ago. Yeah, a while ago, quite some time ago. And I was just really moved by their live performance, and then sat down with their records for a long time, and was really excited about them. And just had a great artistic relationship with their work for a long time, and then got to know them.

1:34And now we have a great friendship with them as well. So it's always inspiring to watch and play every night. So this tour goes from St. John's to the Naimo, and up to Whitehorse, and everywhere in between. It's a long haul, so having something like being able to see them every night to get you through is really important. That's nice. I heard you kind of had a hand in naming. They're not the new record, but the last record. Well, I was one of many people consulted. Yeah. They asked people what they thought of the title. And of course you went with the curling. I said, I love the title. And then I was writing a song about curling, and decided I just had to use it as well. So that's kind of nice to have that connection with them. Google both. Yeah, exactly. After Scotties comes to you.

2:20After Scotties, and then it's cons, and us. It's nice for a link together. It's cool. Well, we'll play that song a little bit, because you just shot a video for it a little while ago. But it's cool nonetheless. It must have been a thrill for you. It was fun. And we'll get you to play a few songs. Actually, why don't we start with a song? Sure. Why don't you play? Well, what do you feel like starting with? What do you want to play for us? About when we don't play live anymore, what's it called? Utilities. Try that one. Forgetting your own song titles. It's a cool tune because it came out on that compilation disc for War Child. Yeah. And then you guys kind of took it back in the studio. I guess played around with it. Yeah, we messed around with it so much that we can't figure out how to play it anymore. So now it's just a acoustic song. There we go. We were talking last time you said reunion to our sounds the most like you. Yeah, I guess it's true.

3:06It's been about a year and a half now. Yeah. You still feel that way now that you've had some time to separate yourself from the record? Well, I don't know, because I haven't heard the record since it came out. We'll play in the songs live. Yeah, playing the songs live. I mean, I think the songs fit well with our, I'm very comfortable with the new songs. They seem to fit well with the rest of the repertoire. And I feel pretty confident about what they are. And I like them. Yeah, so we play quite a few of them every night. So they fit in well. What are some of the ones that, because I know you make a record, you dig all the tunes, then eventually, like utilities, they kind of fall away. What are some of the ones that have fallen away? Fallen away. Jeez. If you can remember the titles, I guess, from your utilities. Well, utilities has fallen away.

3:52And it might come back. Sometimes they resurrect themselves somehow. Trying to think of the other songs on the record. I can't think of that. That's fine. Him, Gumpworsley. Yeah, him for the medical already, much as I like it, I find it very difficult to play. It's a crazy story. It is a crazy story. I think you should tell people a story, because I just read about it yesterday. And I was like, wow, that takes on a whole new thing. Others a song on the record called Him of the Medical Audity. Can't remember what we settled on. Him of or Him for the Medical Audity. And it's about this guy named David Rimer, who was born in one of Pegg in the late 60s. And he became world famous, anonymous medical case

4:39study, because when he was young, there was a terrible circumcision accident. And it was decided by some doctors from Johns Hopkins in the state that he should be raised a girl. And so this was going to prove, this one doctor's theory that gender is entirely nurture, as opposed to nature. So that if you bring someone up a girl, they will be a girl, or a boy, or whatever. And that gender is just an environmental construct that we've invented. Yeah, which is very interesting, but destroyed this young person's life. I mean. OK, thanks. Yeah. So she was a girl until her teens and then decided

5:27that he would be a male. And it's this very, very interesting story, and also a very interesting to me, because it was set in Winnipeg in the St. Boniface area, which is a really working class area, and full of factories. And it just seemed like it was another one of those stories where I think one of the reasons all of this happened to him, one of the many reasons, was that he was from a place like Winnipeg, a place where that isn't always able to stand up for its own citizens, it isn't always able to stand up for itself, because it's off on the margins and it's a place that people think is the sticks. So I think we're, us, people from small towns are often more willing to let people from the big cities

6:13tell us what we should do with our lives. So that, I thought, was an example of this. And it's a very tragic story. He killed himself in the end. But not before he wrote a really excellent book with a New Yorker writer named John Colopinto called, As Nature Made Me. It's a brilliant, brilliant book, which I encourage you to pick up. And so, yeah, so that was, I read that book and another person I knew was writing about him. And so I thought I would try and write a little song about him. So I just tried to take a little corner of just the smallest few moments of his life and try and extrapolate from that. But yeah, so that one is also, it's kind of structured

6:59like a church hymn and I find it really tricky to play lives. Fair enough. Cool. Well, let's play it off the record then, because it's a cool song. It's different for you guys. And well, I remember Wayne from Cuff the Duke came in. We were talking about, because the first time I saw them play was opening for you. And it was just after Union Tour came out and they had their new record out. And we just got talking about lyrics. And we started talking about civil twilight in December, tries to assemble the length of my working day or whatever that lyric is. And he goes, I just live in his shadow all the time. I can't write like that. But, Patty, Wayne's a great writer. He is fantastic writer. But he was just, you're kind of like the lyricist for Canada. So I have a question for you. What is the most, I haven't just argued with my friends all the time. Cadence, Melody, or lyrics? What's the most important thing in a song? Well, I want to say lyrics, but it's probably cadence.

7:46You think so? Yeah, I think so. I think probably it's cadence. I mean, cadence is really important. And that's what, I think cadence is actually what, yeah, what like, like, punches through the ear into the brain and actually makes it, so's itself into the brain is the cadence. I mean, Melody is mysterious and beautiful and emotional. But without cadence is kind of. And I mean, lyrics, I think, lyrics are very important to me and the most, the thing I obsess on most. Oh, I'm sure. But, you know, I think the best songs are the ones that have cadence to me.

8:33How do you, when you write a song, are you pretty satisfied with it? Do you know when it's done? Kind of thing? You know when it's done, yeah, generally, I'm not always satisfied with it. It's done, but usually I know what it is. Like when it becomes the best it's going to be, I guess. I know, I generally know, yeah, it takes a long time, usually. And there's still, and that's not entirely true. I mean, there's still songs that we've made that I think there's a couple lines where I go, eh, could have been better. Like what? If you offer reconstructions, I'd actually, that kind of wish I had a chance to rewrite a little bit. That's the beauty of playing live, though. You can rewrite a little stage. That's true, yeah. And I like that idea that your body of work

9:20is a living thing that you can change. Like one of my favorite poets, W.H. Auden. Great 20th century poet did that. He was rewriting his work. Right up until he died, he was rewriting his entire body of work that he carried around with him. But he kind of, now people read the original stuff. Like the stuff he rewrote is kind of, no one really reads that anymore. So that's kind of interesting. There is something to be said for a time and a place and what you made. But I don't know, a song like Ben Addiction that we still play, I hear lines in there and go, ah, could have made that better. Made more sense, but. Yeah. It's all right, it happens. You were talking about time and place.

10:07And songwriters have their time and place and revolve around the world and what's going on around the world influences everything. You write relative surplus value. And now everything that's happening. Very timely tune. But it wasn't at the time. Well, it sort of was. I think I was, it was kind of the reflected blast from the internet bubble burst. Was what really started me thinking about it a long time ago. And then it took me years and years to write it. And just that idea of relative surplus value. It's a theory of Marx's about how it's just about how capitalists derive profit from technological advances. That's relative surplus value.

10:53And so I was thinking about the internet and how it was this wonderful force that was immediately taken over by the ambitions and greed of capitalism and how it still has the chance to be this wonderful thing. But it is also kind of destroyed, I think, a lot of the best and brightest minds of my generation, for sure. Got kind of sucked into that. And I think some of them were frankly destroyed by this kind of fantasy of endless money. And certainly that all snowballed into the mortgage crisis and the economic collapse of recent months. So that was just kind of fortuitous, I guess.

11:40But I think if you read enough Marx, it's always coming around to that cyclical right now. Everything's cyclical. It's going to happen. You read a lot of Marx? You call me? Well, sure. I mean, I haven't read Marx in a long time, actually. But for writing that song, I read quite a bit of him. And I like to read about him, perhaps, more than I actually read him. I think the capital is a pretty rough slog. But the Communist Manifesto, I think, is a beautiful work of literature. And I reference it a lot. I think it's got wonderful phrases and wonderful images and sentiments. It's good in theory. I just don't see it being applicable. That's the problem, right? Well, it just causes chaos. Well, I'm not sure that that's true.

12:25I don't think it's ever been really applied. So I think, yeah, yeah. It's been done in dictatorships, which obviously is not going to work. Yeah, it's not going to work. But I think more of the point is the kind of ethic and actions that a piece of literature like that can provoke. And I think, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't follow the Communist Manifesto. But I think that the language itself can be really inspiring and also just make people think about who they are and how they fit into a society. I think that's the great thing about Marx, is that he makes the individual think about how they fit into this giant structure that we all live in.

13:13And the injustice of that structure and how we can perhaps try and become less alienated and more fair. I think it's just a real. I mean, I think the New Testament does the same thing. Communism to Jesus. Yeah, yeah, there you go. And we'll play a song, relative surplus value. What are you writing for New Record? It's been about a year and a half. Well, you know what? I haven't been writing yet. I've been kind of taking things in, I hope. Reading a lot? Yeah, reading a lot. And there's a few things I want to do. I want to do some traveling this summer around. Small town Manitoba, I think. Oh, yeah? Yeah, there's something to, there's something,

13:58there's some just thing I've been thinking about that I want to write about contemporary small town life, not the kind of, you know, Canadiana small town, you know, much as I love like corner gas and stuff. I mean, I want to kind of get at like, just the real small town, I guess, because small town is always in trouble. And Winnipeg itself is a series of small towns. I mean, so many people who live there from small towns. And also, it seems like the city itself divides itself into small towns. All of them seem to know. Yeah, I guess they do. Yeah, it's true. It's just something I've been thinking about in relation to.

14:46It's true everywhere, I'm sure. But yeah, so I want to think about small town life, I guess. You never moved out to the big cities, though? No, I didn't. How come? You love it that much? Yeah, I guess. I mean, I've got family and friends, and when I'm in a peg, I can do what I want to do, and not have to scramble for work. And when it picks one of those places where you say you're something you can be, you know, and that's kind of half of that. So, 2D art, I wonder how it changes into a song, because you got a couple of songs from Edward Hopper paintings on the record. All right. You look at a painting and a song comes out. Now, obviously, not the whole song right away, but why those two paintings? You know, I don't know. They were just, they both were, I had a list of kind of 10. I thought originally when I first started writing the record,

15:31it would be all about Edward Hopper paintings. So, by this exhibition that I saw in London back in 1984, maybe not. It took a while to generate the songs. Yeah, oh, for sure. Yeah. Or no, 2004, 2005. Oh, OK. Yeah, sorry. 90s. It's not 90s anymore. No. It's almost the 10s. Yeah, it's almost the 10s. Perhaps, like. But, yeah, so I saw these wonderful pieces, and I thought they just moved me. And I thought that they lent themselves to narrative, and they kind of begged to be written about. And then I did a lot of reading about Hopper and about the paintings, and discovered that maybe that wasn't

16:19such a good idea. And I had all these kind of different issues with it. But I got two written, and then I just thought, at that point, I couldn't really, I'd kind of written myself around into a corner. So I kind of had to, but they kind of, they laid the foundation for the record, and I think the themes kind of emerged from those two songs. That was kind of lucky. Let's play one of them. Your choice. Let's go sun and then do your own. I like that one. Should have been a single, that's what I think. Wow. Thank you. I really dig it. I know a lot of people do too. So we'll do five questions. We've done it a lot of times, but we'll do it again, because we've got a camera, and we'll get it on there. Roder Studio. Rode. Leninger McCartney. McCartney. I Paudder CDs. I Paudder. Really? You bought one. I did, yeah.

17:05Most times I had CDs. I know. I did buy one, and I adore it. It's amazing. Yeah, it's really amazing for my life. You don't want to love it, but then you just, it's amazing. I know. It's amazing. It's so great. I've got a song you've written you're most proud of. I'm going to go with a pamphlet here. OK. And one word. A weaker thans. One word. One word. Fractions. Fractions. What does that mean? It means, you know, kind of a. It's one that just wandered in my head yesterday. Fractions. It means like there's like fractions. No, like conflict, isn't it? OK. There's some conflict, but it's.

17:51So like friction. Yeah, maybe. More. OK. It works. I've never heard it. I like it. People are diving towards their computers to Google it. Yeah, probably. I'm wrong. Send them emails. John Kay, a weaker thans.com. I don't know why I'm here. I like garkey, too. Larky? That's a word. I think you know what? It's from a John Cheever. I was reading a John Cheever. That's what it is. It's from the end of a John Cheever book called The Wapshot Chronicles. And the character says, not all in life is larky and fractious. There you go. There you go. Random words from John Kay. There are some random words. Love it. She's going to play one more tune for us and close us out, a song that I haven't heard in years. And I don't know if unless they go back to fallow. Right. And people have heard it recently. Yeah, it's a title track from fallow. It's called Fallow.

18:36And yeah, I wrote it a really long time ago. And just kind of pulled it out the other day. And we've been trying to play it live, but we haven't been doing it that much. And it's kind of just a fun one. Amazing. Tonight, Mac Hall. It's going to be fun as it always is. I love the shows. So it'll be good. And the costumes are on. What time are you on? We're on, I think, at 10. 10. So cons will be on, like, 9-ish. Amazing. Just come on down. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.