The Velvet Underground (John Cale)

0:00A legend in the music industry on the show tonight, these are my favorite shows when I get to talk to the people that actually influence everything you're hearing today. This man John Kale from the Velvet Underground Out, fantastic solo career as well. You just heard Brand new single off the new record, Black Aztete Perfect. My favorite track on the record, I'm glad you made it the single. Why'd you choose to have that one to be the single? Well, I didn't. I mean, I don't make those decisions. I try and stay away from them. I let the record company decide what they... You know, you've got a whole fleet of people that can go to work for you if you just give them a chance. So you get something back from them as to what they think can work. And most of the time you get... You go in a progression. And I think they have a progression in mind.

0:45I mean, in England anyway, because I haven't spoken to anybody here. They thought, well, we have four, maybe two in this order and try it. And Perfect was always... Is it one of your favorite top of the record as well? Yeah, it is. It is what it is. I mean, it was kind of a knucklehead song when we first started off with it. I was like... But then you never know what happens to the vocal. So if you get some bad attitude on the vocal, it'll make it work every time. Changing the studio, obviously when you first started, there weren't computers. There weren't some pro tools. There wasn't a whole one. You know, everything that's involved today. Making a record now is compared to making a record 30, 30 odd years ago. What are the biggest changes in the studio, at least in your process? Do you prefer it now? Do you like it more when it was raw? No, I mean, I couldn't get anything done. I mean, it really facilitates what you want to do.

1:33You can move fast in there. When you have this digital system, you can change your mind. You can crack things really much faster. And, you know, in case of black acid, it made it possible to make almost a one-man record. I mean, it was Herb. Did you play everything basically? Herb and I did, yeah. Oh, honestly. It was Herb. Herb Graham is a co-producer. Okay. He's a jazz fusion drummer. Oh, no. So he played drums. I played guitar. Then we got Dave LaVita to do solos. But the thing that, the one track which is the last one that we did, we'd chosen what to mix. And it seemed well, there's nothing really live here. So let's get one live track. So I got these guys that I'm on the road with. They came in and did Soul Motel. Cool. So we got a taste of, you know, the raw edge.

2:20How'd you hook up with the guys you're on the road with? Have you done them for a long time? No, no, I didn't do the meditions. No, it was really in the dark and, are they cool? They're fun to hang around with. Oh, they're great. Yeah, they're nuts. So how about it? No, are you just going to give them 5 milligrams more all the time? Whatever it is, just give them. They're fine. That's awesome. Let's play something off Paris 1919, one of your most critically acclaimed albums. What's your favorite track off that record? It would be Hankie Pinky know-how. Sachete, the gentleman, grievance now and there.

3:05He did awesome and we're playing it and playing it. Both playing it will surely. Nothing might win me more than religion and my door. I want to talk about the Velvet Underground at least.

5:26Talk about the music of the 60s because- Ooh, yeah. For me the 60s is just, I wish I had grown up in, I wish I was born in 1949 so I could, live through the 60s properly and really experience everything you, obviously grew up through it and became fantastically talented to throw that. New York 1963 when you moved there. Were you into the folks in all Bob Dylan and Philip? Where were you in the whole New York thing? No, I hated the folks. Yeah, I mean the whole point of doing things with Louis to really put this album, God thing together with some street poetry. And be as aggressive and nasty as possible. But as it turned out we got the same producer that Dylan had when he did Septurary and Homstick Blues. Oh really? Tom was. And Tom was the guy that really put the electric guitar on the, you know, introduced the

6:16lint to that whole thing and got him in trouble in Newport. But you know, it's, I don't know. I mean, yeah, anybody, it was such an exciting period. I mean, with Lenny Bruce and then out of jail, you know, crazy things going on. And everybody very busy making films, doing performance art, all of that stuff. And we got lucky. We launched onto Andy and Warhol. Yeah, Andy, you gave us a platform. You know, he like put us in the place that everybody could see and focus everybody's down. He had to see one of your gates or something and say, hey, I love those guys. I mean, he took them up. He wouldn't do that. He'd send somebody. Oh, so Gerard showed up, you know, started dancing with a whip on, you know, on this. And, you know, come up the factory.

7:02I mean, I'd known Andy before from the, from art circles. Oh, because I was, I was in an art circle in, in downtown Boulamant, who were very suspicious of up town Andy Warhol. And why is that? Oh, just tough. Oh, okay. Yeah. And, and we, of course. And, so I just, I'd seen him with a lot of people. I'd seen him at a party that we played, we played for Henry Goutsala's birthday party. And Jackie Kennedy showed up and, and there in the middle of it was Andy. And, but we didn't, I don't know. I was working the music and he was doing Central Park West and trying to promote his career.

7:47And then finally we, we met and it was, it wasn't what I expected at all. Well, what was it? What did you expect? And, and how was it different? You know, from a theoretical point of view, which is my head was immersed in other times. You know, you just, you just really think about the theory behind what Andy was doing and what Le Mans was doing. And Andy was in the repetition, repeated images with co-pods. Yeah. And, and everybody said, well, Le Mans doing something like it, but Le Mans, you know, sustaining something for a long time and time, like it's like holding a chord for three hours. It's not the same as repeating, yeah, co-pods. So, there were all these issues that crept up between, you know, that artistically people would just like sniff out, you know, just say. But when you got up to the factory, what was really important was that people were working

8:36like crazy in there. You know, there were down in their knees making sales screens, just work, work, work, work. And it was great. You know, it's like exactly the kind of environment that I wanted to be in and, and everybody in the band, you know, thrives in it. That's cool. Yeah. There's really only one real velvet underground record is at least, well, there's the one with Nico, but she's, is it Nico or Niko? I've never known Nico. She's singing on it. And then, you know, after that, you guys left. But white heat, white light, white light, white light, white light, white heat. White light, white heat. I love it. I was listening to it the other day. And what's your favorite track on that record? Let's play one of those, because I mean that, in my mind, probably, and I'm sure- I had to call my name. That's my favorite track too. Good. I heard her call my name off white light, white heat, velvet underground record.

13:53I want to talk about drugs for a second. Obviously very prevalent in the 60s. It's still now in music. How do they affect you in your- So now in the world, 60% of advertising on television is for drugs. What's wrong with this picture? Well, there's different kind of drugs. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I mean, some of these drugs, you don't even know what they do. And you read them and before it ends, you know, everybody told me, be careful with the struggles. It could hurt you. I mean, these guys want control of really the one who controlled people. And what they didn't like about what was going on in the 60s is what they couldn't. People were a little bit out of control because of everything. Do you think we'll ever get to that point again where people want basically music is running everything?

14:38It's still here. I mean, it's not as if it's gone away. It's just that- Well, it seems that rock and roll is not, you know, as- it was huge back then. Now it's kind of dying, which is unfortunate. What was he- drug taking? It was a rock and roll. Well, I think you're looking at it being homogenized into industry. You look at it as an industry, which means you look at it like newspapers, a television, or football, or sports. There's marketing involved. And it's the marketing that really, I don't know, I mean, the internet sort of scared everybody. I mean, like I'm just suddenly realizing you better pay some more mathematicians to get safe codes

15:24so that we can protect our own, otherwise we're going to be bankrupt. How do you feel about that? I mean, it's only South Preservation. You know, I wouldn't want anybody to be able to pay my DNA. And, you know, so I'm so- And Sony just withdrew their- their root kit that was in their CDs. Yeah. Well, somebody downloaded a CD of a jazz group that they put out that contained a root kit, which was a trace element that would open doors to anybody that copied it. So you could follow through how many copies of this one CDB. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Which meant that you left doors open. Unfortunately, the doors they left open were in the Pentagon computers on a way-

16:13Government computers, and you could ride that train and infect. And suddenly they did- yesterday they- after denying that it was there, they withdrew it. Oh, yeah. And the guy that found it was a Microsoft analyst who knew, and he describes in detail how he actually- how he came across it and how he tried to remove it. And we found out when he did successfully remove it up to a long jolt of work, is CD played in work. The software of the CD was destroyed. That's awesome.

16:58Let's play another song off the new record. Turn the lights on. What do you think when you hear that song? Hard rock. Hard rock. Here it is. John Kale.

20:44I'm always Sony BMG. Music these days. What bands are you fans of? Elbow. Rihanna. I like- Oh, so they like the hip-hop kind of stuff? I like Jay-Zeal. I mean, the production there. Those grooves are just- any Pharrell, any Dre, any Fiddie- See, you're big and te- Rob. Well, I- I- what- what is this? I'm just gonna change you on to that. The production. Just the production? Yeah. It's in Sandery. I mean, it's really- it's very irreverent of a lot of the stuff that's out there. And I'm sure they- they- they- they pay to get used to some of the samples that they've gone. But it's such- it's really refreshing because they're taking TV shows, they're taking film, and throwing it around. So all the- you know, the interesting ideas to me and the way I- I really am now John,

21:33it's not gonna go away. It's not as if it's- Oh, definitely not. Would you ever give- I don't even know if- do you have the right or does the read out the right- so would you ever give stuff, like, velvet underground stuff to be looped? And be given to hip-hop songs? Yeah, I did it. Yeah, I did it. Oh, really? What song? Uh, wait a minute. Yeah, where I give it? I signed up. Uh, uh, Chili Memphis. Oh, really? Yeah. What song? I can't remember who's years ago. They wanted the bass part of- of the European Sun. Oh, really? Yeah. Cool. Well, I'll check that out then. You gotta list the 10 names here. Just give me like, I don't know, maybe you met them in a store, cool story, or just what you think of them. Just list the 10 names here. John Lennon. I miss it. You miss it? Yeah, some. Paul McCartney. Um, he's still writing tunes with- with more good hooks than usually find in like three

22:24songs. Have you heard his new record? Yeah, do you like it? I like Vanity Fair a lot. Yeah. Cool. Bob Dylan. Uh, he's the one guy I like to produce. You think he'd never come up? He never built you up? I don't know. I don't know. It almost happened once when I- when I talked to him. And I was just- I was leaving on the phone and taking one tour. But he was very interested in if I had a band because he would make things simpler. He? Because he wanted to use the band. And I thought, you know, just as well in a very way it was, if I had to move with my band I probably would not have a band anymore. That's true. Jimmy Hendricks. Um, I remember hearing Hay-Jo on the shitty, um, radio in the village.

23:10I bought this and I'm sure this radio was stolen from somewhere. Because this guy, man boy wants to buy the music. Okay. Gave me the- give me the radio. I went home and I teared a busy world service. And all of a sudden like in a week or so, this song came on. I couldn't believe this guitar song. And whistling out of the speakers. And I just ran away from it and I said, you gotta hear this fucking track. I mean this guy is like ripping your head off. And then he came to play in a club downstairs in Chardonn Square. And I went there. And there he was at the trio. I'm just playing. There was some drunk in the audience.

23:58And this guy just kept on going and Jimmy just like stood there. He said, oh we got a poly parrot in the audience tonight. And the guy just shut up. Oh, I mean well, you know, you don't want to- he's just sucking the apple. Mm hmm. Oh, he's not gonna mess with Jimmy. Uh, Lou Reed. Um, I've seen him in a while. Hope he's well. Cool. Patty Smith. I saw her the other day at, uh, before I saw her, Melton. Yeah. Melton was a festival. She curated in a QEH and all over London this summer. Oh yeah. Yeah, it was the last one for like four or five years. And it was great because she really was hands on. She's exactly the right person for Q Reading festival.

24:45She was in everything. She got poets. She got novellas. She got events happening. That's cool. And she had a lot of people who tried and failed at before. Mm hmm. So, it was great. And then she performed versus, can you believe it's been 30 years? Does it feel like 30 years? Um, no. No. I mean, she hasn't changed a bit. I mean, she's still great. She's got, you know, she's important. Yeah. And just sit there and listen to the language and bubbling up. Cool. Next one. Iggy Pop. Um, yeah. I wonder if he's- I wonder where this handicap is. Is it golf? Oh, really? You go for it too? No. No. Um, Streli Morrison. I'm missing. Kurt Cobain. Kurt? Wow.

25:30Uh, he broke the mold of college radio. He really, you know, it's college- this was where college radio that had been suppressed by record companies for years, right? Mm hmm. And he said, you don't- whatever it was, I bought it. You don't go and match for college radio. You know, you don't want to get your hands dirty doing that, you know, because- not a respect because they're very sub- you know, sort of possessed and- Yeah. They're their own ideas of what was supposed to happen. And then Kurt Cobain came along and I think college radio just went to war with everybody. They just said, yeah, this is what we were waiting for. They'll make this successful. Cool. They did. I mean, I think they were being influenced on them being experimental and having garden, all that stuff.

26:15But I'm wondering who was the influence on you guys starting off, because obviously you've influenced everyone. Well, there was- no, I- you know, it's a bit of an accent. Oh, well, quite a few of today's bands. Anything basically- anything punk or grunge. Um, I think it was Phil Spector. I mean, there were certain people that we always listened to. They learned Phil Spector. And that's basically what we were trying to do, is to put Phil and Phil Spector together on the band. It's played another song off the new record for a ride. Yeah. What do you think of it when you hear that one? That's a- I've been trying to figure out how to do it live. And it's such a- a do- or-see kind of- um- song. It's a recording event.

27:01You know, it's really nice on the record because you can make things happen. Mm-hmm. But really, if you don't have anything other than guitar soles going for you, doing it live, it's got something else going on and I'm forgetting about it. So let's go. Hopefully it'll happen soon. I love to try- Here's your tour ride.

30:59Speaking with John Kale. I want to play the 17- when it's at 17 minute track sister Ray. Wow. Off the old- well, because you don't hear it too often and I just- I love it. I think it's great. I heard there's a story of the producer just walking out the studio just saying, you know, call me when you're not. Well, the problem was that you had a stream of beautiful girls coming into service in the back room, which just blew off in no end. And so we kept deciding how to do this and everybody was getting louder. So they told us all to turn down and we did, but there was one point where I left it at one level all the time. Well, the orange gives them louder and louder.

31:47Well, but Guy Calgriner was the engineer was in there. And I started playing it back and we wanted to play. We were listening and playing back and we kept pushing his faith. And he just kept looking at the faith and there was a drawer that he had down here with a huge knob in the tomb. And you just, every time we'd push it up we'd go. And I would close the drawer. And like after a while I called him doing it. I said, what's that? It's a- I asked him. That's cool. Well, we'll play on a second, but every week on the show we just think about five questions, five quick questions, one more answer. Leonard McCarney. It's McCartney Lennon, isn't it? Interesting. Alcoholic marijuana. I don't know why though.

32:34Alcoholic marijuana. Give me a break. iPod or CDs? iPod. Song you've written your most proud of. The lying song. And one word John Cal. Me. Cool. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

33:35Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

34:24Thank you.

44:03Thank you.

45:17Thank you.