Neverending White Lights

0:00So how are things? How's the new disc coming along? Just working on it now actually, working on a song with a guy from Hot Hot Heat. Oh yeah, Steve? Steve, yeah. Very nice. What does it sound like? It's like a complete mashup between their style and never anyone like, you know, two styles that wouldn't necessarily seem to work together. Theatrical indie pop. Yeah, kind of. It's like a slow, moody stroke, kind of. Oh, okay. I'm going on, so. A big departure from your big hit song at the moment. Oh my god, the J-Digs tune. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's pretty much straight up hip hop, right? So. Did you ever see yourself doing that? Was that something you always wanted to do? Actually, the irony is that never anyone like is actually influenced by hip hop.

0:51Oh. And I don't mean that in a style or musical sense, but I mean that in the fact that collaborations were always really popular. Right. Hip hop artists. You'd buy these records and be like, you know, J-D featuring Missy Elliott, featuring Jame DiPree featuring Buster Rimes. And they had this whole community, you know, of helping each other out. And I never really saw that in alternative music. You are doing something different. Was it though a comfort reason or was it just because of also, you know, you wanted to try something new? I wanted to try something new. I wanted to do something different. You know, I like the idea of like soundtrack, movie soundtrack. I like the idea of, you know, the idea that you get different directions when you work

1:40with different people. And it makes it much less boring. You listen to a record, you know, a co-play record by song 12, you know, you understand and you're kind of done with it. With other music, you get that diversity because the vocalist changes and the sound sort of changes. So it was just that of making something that would just have more life and would last longer. Do you write with people in mind? Sometimes. Sometimes it's a piece with a high sort of range or, you know, vocalist that can really soar like when I was writing the grace. I did write that with Dallas Green in mind because we had previously worked together and I knew what he was capable. So I didn't mind sort of reaching for the top.

2:28You know, even beyond what I can even hit knowing that he'd be able to pull it off. But a lot of the times I just write music and whatever comes out comes out and sort of like doing a puzzle backwards. You got to sort of look at pieces and say, okay, well, you know, who can I fit into this song? What kind of voice am I looking for? Is it, you know, a female? Has it someone's got a little bit of an edge to them, whatever? And, you know, and then you've got sort of a wish list that I keep around, which is just artists that I've, you know, over the years have grown to admire and wanted to fit them into a song. So you kind of go through the list of songs. Like, I wonder if I could actually draw the line from this singer to this song and it becomes this sort of, you know, crossword puzzle of artists. How much of the final product is a collaboration?

3:14Are they interchanging lyrics that they think might work better for their voice or anything like that? I would say probably 75% of the time I come up with a song start to finish, including lyrics and everything and send it to an artist and they just, they just sing it. Are they coming to Windsor or are they just, are you guys FTPing stuff? A few of them have. I've done a bunch of artists in Toronto as well. I mean, everyone really has their own recording system. These days, like a garage band, whatever on their laptop. So a consent of an MP3 with no words on it, you know, and then send them a reference track list into how I think it should go and then they can put their own twist on it. It's a lot of fun because when you get the songs back, you never know what you're going

4:00to get before you open the song. Yeah, it must be interesting as a producer because I assume being a producer that you still want the control, but that's leaving them to a lot of freeform when you're sending stuff back and forth between cities. Yeah, well, I definitely always include basic guidelines and notes and ideas. You know, like the song should be epic or brooding or dark or whatever or try to think about this. And like when I was producing a most optimal and when I was producing a Hoxie workman, I remember in those two cases, we had a little meeting and sat down and said, okay, you know, this is the idea. This is what the lyrics were trying to say. This is where you want to go. This is the type of head space you want to be in. And I go, okay, I understand. I understand what you're talking about. So they sort of assume the character of that song that by their own band element and become

4:49part of that in every way like 12. It sounds theatrical and soundtrack-esque. You're putting people into characters. You're basically writing movies here almost. Yeah, and that's why they're called acts. Is the new one a third act? Yes, it is. Okay. Definitely. Act three and. Does it have a title yet? Yeah, the title is Love Will Ruin. Love Will Ruin. Yeah. Dark. I guess the Blood and the Life Eternal. No, that's got a bit of a happiness to it. The Eternal Wasn't dark enough, right? Yeah. It's actually a tragic love record. We haven't really done a love record yet. A lot of our songs on the first two records were more about spirituality and life and distance and angels and all that sort of stuff. But I thought it was time to do something in a love zone.

5:36You say our songs. I thought it was just you and you kind of get a couple of friends to tour and whatnot. Yeah, it is just me. I always say us because it makes me feel less lonely. Okay. I'd like to personify never anyone like to the group to say, oh, you know, we've got a new song. But really, yeah, I do, but I just feel like maybe, you know, it's almost being selfish. You know, because I always remember with Trent Reznor, it was always Trent Reznor's and I Hsneil. Okay. It says I am Nineshneil, but it feels like we are Nineshneil. It was like songs are big enough to encapsulate a bigger sort of idea and not just one guy. So I sort of picked that up and I like referring to the Wii or the hour thing as opposed to myself. Who are the Wii on this record though? You said Steve Bays? Yeah. Well, actually, so far I've only got a few artists.

6:24So far the record was supposed to be me entirely. Oh. No guess. Interesting. Why did you want to change it? Well, I felt that a lot of fans really liked the idea that in singing my own songs, they just, some of them just made a little bit more sense. And I also felt that getting on stage to perform the songs, it felt like I was trying to impersonate some of the artists on the record for fans that maybe didn't really understand what we were all about. I know our true fans always thought they understand I write the songs and produce them, but whatever you know, have featured different artists and maybe they're wondering where Dallas Green

7:10is and why I don't sound like Dallas Green. So I've found a couple of always on our last record where I handle the vocals, it just seemed to translate better live because there wasn't a disconnect between who you hear on the album and who you see on the stage. So I thought, you know what, I'm going to do that. But as I got into it, a lot of people around me started saying, you know, you had a magic formula going and you were doing something really different and now you're taking away from that. So I kind of thought, well, let's see how it goes. And as it went, I thought, you know what, some of these songs I just think they feel like they do need different vocalists. And I think that's part of the fun and it's part of the spirit of the record. So I'm probably singing maybe three or four and even five songs and then the rest of the record. But so so far I've collaborated with Hot Hot Heat on the song.

7:59We actually wrote it over the phone, which was a new one for me. Yeah. That's crazy. And I just got a studio with lights actually. Oh, nice. Yeah. That'll be cool. Are you trying to do her kind of sounds or is she trying to sound like you because she's different? She is. She's definitely, you know, more in the pop zone. And I wanted to bring her into something, you know, darker and more alternative. But actually we decided to settle on doing a cover song. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Nice. Did you auto turn her, because here's the thing. She came into the studio and did an acoustic version of her song, Save Your For Us. Okay. And so many comments on the site was she sounds so much better without the auto tune. I don't know why she puts the auto tune all over her records. So what are you doing with her voice?

8:44I did not auto tune her. Okay. But I made sure in the studio to make her sing the song like 75 times over. Fair enough. Like basically worked her so she can't even speak after. It's like take after take after take after take. And then out of those takes I would build one great track. And then you really don't need auto tune. But the sound of auto tune. Nowadays a lot of people are getting used to it. So they're used to very tuned sounding vocals. So I think producers tend to think that if they don't put that sort of, that little polish on there, that it's not going to sound modern. It's not going to sound current. So they just, they inevitably tune just to get that little, you know, that little bit extra on them. Yeah, and buried in the mix kind of thing. Whether they need it or not, you know. What are you recording to?

9:30You Pro Tools? I just, just got a Pro Tools rig. What did you do the first two records on Logic? No, first two records were done on Cubase actually. Oh, oh wow. Yeah. What made you switch? Well, I mean Pro Tools is the industry standard. And yeah, but still you worked with Cubase long enough. I think if you were into it, you could continue, right? Yeah, I was. I was only into it because it was cheap and I knew how to run it. Right. When you work with a lot of artists, engineers, and they're always running Pro Tools. So we'd always have to be converted. I've been mixing the record, Brooklyn, to mix with Scott Stango, who produced it. Oh yeah, of course.

10:15Fills and Priestess. And you know, I got to know his Pro Tools system a little bit and I thought, well, you know, we should probably make that, make that change. So I made the investment in December and upgraded everything. In December, so still pretty recent. Are you, I don't even know how to, I'm just. I was going to say, are you fully fluent? Yeah, it takes some time. No, I haven't, I haven't even had a chance to watch the videos. I'm just trial and error. Like click here, what would happen? That's, you know. Enough studio geeking out for the people who don't care. But the new desk, so when can we expect to hear it? You say, I mean, it sounds like only a few songs are done. The album's taken like four years. Right. There's no like, you know, dance around the fact that it's been a long time. And I've written about maybe two or three albums of worst songs. And have recorded, produced and mixed them.

11:03I was never happy with the funnel. I've thrown them out. I've co-written with guys that grain from Our Lady Peas. And I've had these great songs and I've spent like thousands of dollars and I've traveled and I've put all these songs together and I throw them in the garbage because I'm just not, I'm just not happy with them. And some people think I'm just starting to lose it a little bit. Could be possible. You know, I'm certainly on the edge of being burnt out of being in the studio. But I just have the sense that you sort of, I didn't expect it to start to turn into a Chinese democracy though because. It hasn't been ten years. No, people online are like, wow, this record's going to be insane. It's going to be amazing because he's just been toiling over it.

11:48I'm like, oh my God. Now it's got to be okay computer, you know. But I think there's a point where you realize the songs are in the right zone and they make you happy. And until a song makes the hair stand up on my neck, until it makes me feel like, oh my God, I need a minute. It's not good enough. You know. And so I'm just about to get a collection of those songs. I got about thirteen songs ready for the record. And they just need just some final touches and then we'll be ready to go. Cool. I heard that it might be the last one that you do yourself. You self-produce. Yeah. I am getting a little bit tired of doing everything alone. Not having a band in the studio is tough.

12:34And writing all the songs, trying to pretend to be the producer in one room, giving direction and then the performer in the other room with the headphones on playing drums, it's just like after two j-j on this album, I'm just like, you know what, I'd rather have another guy there with me. Well why not bring the live guys? I mean, you two are with the band. Why not bring some of those guys in? It's one of those things where you feel like somebody's not going to be able to interpret your idea properly. I don't want to say it stems from being overly selfish about parts or writing or songs. But I think it's just like, I hear so many ideas in my head, I don't feel like I can translate that to another person. But once I get it recorded on the album, I can hand it on and say, okay, hear this guitar

13:24part? You know, that's going to be your role. Right. It's the guitar part, the drum. I like having my hands on every instrument. What's your favorite to play? What did you grow up on? What was your first? Drum. Drum. I was a drummer, yeah. I played drums in it. I was like eight years old playing drums in a little band. I played drums in the jazz band in my high school and all that. And then what got tired of being in the back? Sort of a Dave Grohl syndrome. Yeah. Well, and a Hoxley thing too. Yeah. It's... You can only do so much. You can really only do so much with drums before you think like you want to get more musical. You want to get your hands on the piano or on the guitar. I think anyone who's a drummer who sings are from the back of the stage.

14:12You're going to get up front. I love to play drums in a band though on the side. That could be fun. If anybody's looking for a drummer. There you go. You got to fly out from Windsor though. Yeah. It's a bit of a track. What's it going to say? So if it is the last one you produce and you get someone else to do the next one, would you bring in a bunch of different guys? Or would you want to do it with one person? I definitely think one person would be the way to go. I actually spoke to a guy from London, England yesterday who produced the Breakthrough Dove album. I'm not familiar with the Dove. I love pounding. That is an incredible river. He produced that song. Okay. And he produced that record called The Last Broadcast. Right. It's my favorite. And he does Primal Scream. He does Paul Weller and Ocean Color Scene and all these other great bands from the UK.

15:01But maybe doing a record in a bunch of ideas. Not actual recordings. And we'd sit there and we'd just work through. And I'd let him say, okay, you know what you need to do here? Put that keyboard in. I'd say, yes master, let's try it. Instead of me trying to think, I know everything. How hard do you think it's going to be to give up that control? How hard is it going to be? Yeah. You think you're going to be able to? After doing three records, everything is you? Yeah, I do think it's going to be a challenge. But I think, especially in this industry, you have to change. And you have to challenge yourself. You know, it can't always be the same process. You know, and really, I think it'll be fun to have somebody else come in.

15:48And honestly, if another guy got his hands on my song and turned them into a mess, I would pull the plug on it. You know, I would never, I'm so picky. I would never let it see the light of day. So I'm assuming that when you go to somebody, they're going to give you something that is palatable, likable, and listenable, not complete crap. Right. Especially when someone you admire. Exactly. Can I get a couple of sound clips from you? Sure. Like little storytellers behind the two hits that we play? Sure. Well, the Grace. The Grace was a song that I added to my first record at the very last minute. The album was being mastered. And the about to get signed up and everything was coming out. It's all together called, This Is My Fate, which is unreleased and you can't find it.

16:37The song doesn't look for it. It just wasn't hitting the mark. And his voice, I just felt it needed another shot. He needed another try at a different song. So I got together with him and we recorded his city and color release, which was called Sometime. And already I've got a better song. It took me about 20 minutes one day to write it. I just sat down. I thought about his vocals and I thought about the type of sound that I think that he could portray real well. He wrote the song 20 minutes, called him up, I met up with him in the studio. I think it was in St. Catherine's, Ontario. And it was August and it was so hot, no air conditioning. He sang the whole song in his underwear, no shirt, sweating.

17:27And I pushed him as far as I could to get that vocal part. And then we put it on the record like the week before it got manufactured. And then the radio stations started playing it. And all of a sudden the grace became our signature song. That's awesome. Yeah, it was interesting. Always. Well, always I had written, as soon as I finished our first album and before I started recording our second record, and it was a song that had this word, which was always just repeating in my head all the time. I didn't know why. And most of my songs don't have repeated one word courses. They tell a story and there's lyrics and this was just like this. Always, always. And I was getting this vibe in my head about just loving somebody or really caring about

18:18somebody. And no matter what they do, no matter where they end up going, you always feel like you'll always have them in your heart. You'll always think about them no matter what. I was relating that to people I used to know. I don't even know anymore. People have passed on or lost loves and all that sort of thing. It was supposed to be repetitious and I ended up recording it first and I just knew it was going to be our first single on the record before I recorded anything else. And we got nominated for a June award in 2006, I believe, before the album came out. They wanted me to perform the grace and I said, I'm going to perform a brand new song. And they said, well, we don't do that. And I said, well, I'm going to do it anyway. And I don't know what they expected me to do, but I got on stage and I was at the June

19:04of ceremony. And for Tato, everybody was there and I got on the piano. I said, well, here's a brand new song. I'm going to come out next year and I'm pretty sure it's going to be a single. I played it. Everybody loved it. And when we were in Toronto that year for the, we weren't nominated and I said, you know what, when it always comes out next year, we're going to be there. And it came out and of course it got nominated and became a single. And I think it's one of my probably top three favorite songs of ours. I just love the energy of it. I think fans really like it too. Do you know what the first single is going to be from the new record? Actually, we're picking the first single this week. OK. Yeah, I just sent the song featuring Steve Bates from How Not Heat to our ready guy to see if he likes it.

19:50Cool. I should know any minute. Nice. Are you on Maple? I am on Maple, yeah. Nice. Cool. I'm excited to hear what they say. Yeah, me too. I'll let you know. Maybe something to show call five questions, five quick questions, one more answers. OK. Road or studio? Studio. Lennon or McCartney? Lennon. Most important thing in a song, lyrics, melody or rhythm? Melody. Song you've written you're most proud of? Dove-colored sky. And in one word, never ending white lights. Spirituality.