Stars (Torquil Campbell)

Part 1

0:00So you're in Vancouver. I am. Yeah, I live here. How long have you been live? I guess people just picture you guys as a Eastern kind of well, they all live in Montreal, but I live in Vancouver. I just couldn't stand to be with them anymore, huh? Yeah, that's basically the deal. Yeah Now it's just I just it's 10 degrees and sunny here that yeah, that's plus That's all I can really say to defend my decision Well, you're a busy guy lately, too You just put out two records like in the span of a month. Yeah, well the second record hasn't come out yet It doesn't come out till March, but but yeah, I mean I actually put that good child star record up online in early December, but I did it as a I had been making this thing on my own for ages and I

0:46Deliberately didn't get anybody involved in it. I didn't play it for anyone I didn't try to get management for it or press for it or label for it even I just wanted to see what would happen if I could make something and get it up online on a platform and try and sell it entirely by way of myself by social media and Twitter and Facebook and things like that and and see how much of an audience I could garner from that and so it was just kind of sitting around there for a month and and some people had bought it but Then suddenly I guess the cardboard box project which is the place where I have the album for sale up online Put out a newsletter saying that they had this thing available and that was suddenly when everybody started to

1:33Notice that it existed so it's actually been online for a few months now But it's still new in the sense that no one's heard it. Right. So so is the experiment working the I mean it's really interesting because it's it's totally direct time in charge of absolutely every aspect of the how it goes or doesn't go and you know, it's Interestingly because I think this is sort of the problem with the music industry in general It's instantly profitable, you know, I made it at home and I put it up with no overhead and so The records I sell are our records I sell so in that way. It's been a big success I mean in a bigger way. I think for me. It's just that it's It's an it's a really interesting thing to do because I realize now there's you know, there's a

2:20Small number of people who are willing to buy things digitally from my little cyber corner store in in in cyber world and It allows me to feel like you know if there are songs that don't fit into the Memphis world or the Stars world that I have There's somewhere I can go and put them up and people can have access to them So I think you know, it's not like that people haven't done this kind of thing before but for me I think it was a nice Just a little sort of sidebar to open up to my life and and know that I can you know if I have a song that I like that I've made I can put it up online and sell it cheap and people can hear it How different is it from because you were doing Dead Child Stars DJ sets if I remember on the summer tour? Yeah, I mean Dead Child Star is sort of a name just for you kind of and I have gone under for some time because it's sort of what I am

3:09You know, I was a I was a child actor and and and starting all in a movie and in a lot of TV shows and stuff And I never really felt like an actor and and began was you know finally killed that part of myself Which was directed as a person in a rock band. So That name has always kind of meant something to me And I've used it in various ways when I write things or when I DJ or you know a number of other things So it's it's just kind of an alter ego. I guess that I have it's funny that you mentioned you you've killed that part of yourself But I hear there's like a possible acting gigs for some of you guys though in the future are there while I heard you you had mentioned Something in an interview about it in our bedroom after the war film. Oh, yeah well, that's something that we're you know, we're talking to Bruce McDonald about and

3:58you know films are a long and arduous process and Bruce is an unbelievably active and busy guy, but Yeah, it's still something that you know, we're writing we're trying to develop the script for and we're all trying to find the time to To get it done. I'm not sure if I would end up being in it. I might play a cameo role But I think a bigger part should be left to someone who knows what the hell they're doing Maybe your father is he still acting sadly he passed away like you would have been great though He would have been although he would have been he would have charged us too much. That's of course He didn't work cheap that guy So tell me about this Memphis records coming out the Memphis record is I really really love it and I'm really happy With it. It's taken us a long time. We worked hard on it

4:44And it's you know just the continuation of this sort of long and Great friendship between me and my friend Chris Dumont Who's the guy that I met actually in theater school way back in the early 90s in New York? And we went to theater school together and and just became really close friends and the first band That that I was in was me and Chris Dumont and Jimmy Shaw from metric and Chris Seligman and And we sort of all learned how to write songs together in a way, you know and so when Jimmy moved on and I started stars We wanted me and Chris Dumont wanted to keep making music together and He would come out to Vancouver every summer and we would just hang out and smoke weed and and write pop songs and

5:32It was just a way really of continuing the friendship and of staying close and of continuing to do something that we enjoyed doing together and Eventually, you know people started putting the records out and it's it's not something that we've ever had a lot of time to devote to and one of the Things I'm excited about with this record is that because Amy's having a baby in March I'm gonna have more time free to devote to Memphis So hopefully there'll be more shows and more activity and what people will find out about the band, you know And get into the music you said a lot of things in there that I want to touch on We'll get to Amy and Evan. They should know Evans baby as well. Yes, but you mentioned the marijuana with with Chris I'm just curious to have a medical term. Yes. Oh, of course. It's funny because I have Tommy Chong calling medical purposes

6:19I got a lot of stress Very stressed out. It's funny because I have Tommy Chong calling me in like 20 minutes Oh, well, yeah seems to be a theme then well I'm just curious about the writing process for you like because I know it helps some musicians and others Can't write on it or can't perform on it. Yeah, well, you know That's the thing with any kind of drug or stimulant in the you think it helps you though Well, I would hate to think it helps me, but it's definitely Over the years. I think the relationship between Music and weed for me has been a pretty close one and I think a lot of people would say that I think there's something about the drug that lends itself to Musicality having said that, you know, it makes a lot of people really paranoid and unhappy and it gives you lung cancer So I wouldn't recommend that anybody do it

7:07Being the good father that you are I think yeah being a new father that I am I sure as hell have changed my mind about a lot of that stuff, but I think more to the point really it would it's There's there's an aspect of Memphis's music that is somewhat narcotic and somewhat sleepy and somewhat dreamy and We wanted to capture the feeling of Vancouver in our music to a certain degree I think and you know Vancouver is nothing if not famous where it's green and So that you know I think what we're really trying to do is sort of provide a marijuana substitute for those who don't enjoy the drug You know we're maybe trying to create music that gives you the nice bits of it without all the Sketchiness, I don't hear Vancouver on the last disc

7:54No, well as Chris has worked more and more in New York And I've been more and more and more my wife is an actor and she's been at the Shaw Festival for the last couple of years on perio so we haven't spent those summers together in Vancouver that we used to for a couple of years and You know more and more New York is creeping in to the sound of the music and and Chris's kind of I mean this record was made in Seattle New York Vancouver Niagara on the lake Toronto Montreal Niagara on the lake. Yeah Portland are again I mean we were basically just traveling around with a laptop finding our friends and the people we wanted to work with and Getting them to contribute to it, you know so As time has gone on Memphis has become a more cosmopolitan

8:40Venture then I guess it started out being but I think in a strange way we always connect ourselves to those summers that we spent together in Vancouver and the time we spent together and just the energy of the city is You know very inspiring to both of us. I live right now I'm looking out my window I live right on Stanley Park and you know the mountains are off in the distance and the seagulls are calling and It's a very magical place and I think we Musically speaking we've always kept it close to us with Memphis and tried to reflect the energy of the city in the music How is being a dad changed it? Well, you know being a dad changes absolutely everything about who you are I don't know if you're a dad or not. I'm not no I mean it's so hard to express what parenthood does to you I remember before I had a kid

9:27People would talk about parenthood and it sounded like a series of platitudes or cliches You know and and you'd think that person doesn't really have that much to say about being a parent. That's interesting I wonder if they like it or I wonder if they don't really like it or and I think that what it is with parenthood is it's just It's so enormous and it's so Utterly utterly profoundly life-changing that you can't really remember What it was like not to feel this way, you know, I can't remember the world without my daughter Ellington I can't remember what I cared about or what I did with my time or What what what things meant to me? It's it's like a strange kind of amnesia that I have and and in a way I feel like I've always been her dad, you know, even though

10:15Obviously I wasn't until two years ago Somehow it's like I've been waiting for her, you know, all my life and I've been waiting To see the things that she shows me by being around all my life And so it's hard to say how it's changed it other than to say that I think it's made it less important to me in it to be honest But also But also more because it's how I earn my living. It's how I support my child And so the music as a kind of exercise in egotism is Has kind of faded away because the only criteria by which I'm gonna judge my life from here on out is does my kid like me? You know, that's all that really matters But from the perspective of it being something I'm proud to do and something that I feel proud to Be able to support my family with it's way more important to me than it's ever been so it's a strange kind of

11:07duality to what it does to you. Yeah, how hard was it to because this would have been the first album cycle? Yeah, the child so how was it going on the road this time? Where do they come with really really hard? They didn't come away hard. I mean they were there for 10 days of it, but Just you know anybody who's a parent will know that when you leave for 12 hours and you come back your child is utterly different It's extraordinary in the first few years of their life how? quickly they are learning things and changing and growing and And you know those dead hours on the road before Ellington was around where you know You'd play Tiger Woods golf or whatever or go see a movie or wander around a city You know those were the parts of being on tour that were always tough, but you thought oh well You know I'd be basically doing the same thing at home I'll just read a book or and now I you know when those dead hours come I just think what am I doing here?

11:59Why am I not at home enjoying? Watching my child grow why am I sitting on this bus? You know but the answer always comes very Resoundingly around 9 30 at night, you know because you go out on stage and there's people out there Overjoyed to hear your music and singing along and and and having their lives changed by your presence there in any small way that you can so You know the day on tour is a weird one you start out depressed You get bored then you get nervous then you have an unbelievably awesome experience with 2,000 strangers then you feel awesome and You go to bed And it's just like repeat rinse and repeat over and over again. You still feel nervous every day?

12:44Yeah, I do. I mean I well I don't I feel I Feel like I'm doing something that Could go well or badly and it's up to me, you know, so I feel it's up to us I mean I can only experience the thing personally, but it's up to the five of us, you know and and I Can only I can only say that I feel the kind of nervousness you get when you're about to do something that you're you know You're proud to do You you want it to go well because you you those people have spent money and they put on their nice clothes And they've come out in the nighttime and and they expect you to make their life beautiful for an hour and a half and That is a big obligation, you know, so I take it seriously and people are gonna do all that on Saturday night

13:32I'm freezing your hopes though. I mean it's gonna be an amazing show because You know, we're all gonna be there with broken that's gonna be the first show we've played with broken social scene as a as a band years Which will mean that we'll get up and play with them and chaos will be there who's a great friend of mine and of the bands and He lives in Vancouver too. We hang out at the Sylvia Hotel together and discuss what's wrong with hip-hop Now you're gonna have people stalking you with the hotel You can stalk away man. No one what's interesting about, you know My life is that one of the things I do every night is I go and stand in the middle of the audience before the show I really I can count on them on one hand a number of times anyone's recognized me I think I'm just one of those people that in real life you think that little balding man can't possibly be in the band

14:21I love he must look like Brandon Flowers, but no I look like a librarian you should grow a little mustache like that maybe I should but then I'd be recognized My blandness is my disguise This is probably gonna be the last show for a while for stars, huh? I would think well, yeah, I mean I think we'll be back by the summer for some festivals hoping hopefully I mean, you know, it's all up to the lady cuz she's gonna go right a Big they call it labor cuz it's work, you know So she'll kind of call when she's ready to come back, but we're already writing another record Oh, and we're we just spent a week together in in in a little house in the Laurentians writing new music and We're hoping to have new music out by the end of the year and and you know continue with the five ghosts

15:09But once the pregnancy happened we did definitely have to sort of shift gears from touring to recording You know, that's a little too bad because the five ghosts got a bit of short shrift But on the other hand it means we'll have new material much sooner than we generally do because generally speaking an Album cycle is a year and a half to two years which is a drag, you know because it means you only get to make a record every three years So, you know, this is an Opportunity for us to get right back into the studio and and use the things we've learned from playing the five ghosts live to Apply to the next record. Yeah, what are you writing about? I mean that was a very that was not a concept record But almost a concept record kind of well it was a record affected very deeply by the death of my father which happened right in the middle of the recording and in Montreal and

15:56He was a guy who was a huge friend To the band and not just a dad to me But a real mentor and friend to everyone in the band so it really devastated us Obviously and and we were faced with having to write what we had to write which was about loss and about ghosts and about trying to Stay in touch with the people you love and the things you lose in this life, you know and and as a result I think it's in many ways a very heartbreaking record and and very hard to listen to in a way And I think that once we got that out of our system and the healing started and You know, I'm still sad every day about it But I feel pretty certain that what my dad would want me to express in my art is is joy

16:42You know is joy and is energy and is Hope as much as I can. I mean stars are always a band that paint a little gray cloud inside They're silver lining because otherwise, you know, we'd sound like Mandy Moore, but But you know, I think we want to write a record about the excitement we feel to Still be here together still be making music together and and ultimately stars are in the business of writing your story You know, not ours. That's what's really important to you. You don't really write that That's what I found interesting about this record It you don't typically write autobiographical kind of stuff Yeah, we don't and and I think you know, we had to in some sense Because we were dealing we had to make the record and we were dealing with such, you know With the biggest thing that's ever happened to me anyway personally

17:29I think that what we're what we're really good at and what we really enjoy is writing songs and stories about You, you know about the people who listen to the music and and we like to disappear inside the music And have you feel like you're the singer in the band because so much of pop music for me when I was a kid Was about that, you know, it spoke for me it told me about my life the Smith told me about my life I don't know whether that was Morrissey's life or not, but it was definitely mine, you know, and I think that's one of the great powers and one of the great gifts of pop music as an art form is it's it's popular It's a simple basic form of storytelling that that gives everyone a chance to find their story in a song And that's what we love to do, you know, so I think the next record you'll find is

18:16probably more energetic and less about us Mm-hmm and more about the kids, you know, thanks. Do you ever write for Amy or does she write for you or do you sing everything you write? No, I mean many many many things are written for Amy and and And Britain for me and I think that's a misapprehension a lot of people have about the band is that? When somebody's singing those are the words they wrote, you know, I think that's because of the Beatles though Yeah, I guess so well. There's a lot of bands like right? Right from the get-go with stars our intention was to write for two voices and to have two different perspectives, you know So we both make an effort of songwriters to include another perspective other than our voice So, you know a song like your ex over is dead

19:03I wrote the lyrics to that song But if I didn't have Amy in the band I couldn't have written those lyrics because I couldn't have had that point of view of the girl coming in and in the second-borse and Changing the story, you know, and that's what's exciting about the particular nature of stars is that we We're able to give you two different perspectives on on one story within within a same song Hmm. I hate to dwell on the record What did you do to your voice on I died so I could haunt you because that does not sound like you you know, it's that's interesting comment I I was the most frustrating vocal that I've ever done because it was it's a very that's maybe the most personal song on the whole record and I was singing it very emotionally and as an anthem of sorts and Tom our producer just kept saying to me

19:53Too much too much just don't sing it. Just don't sing it. Just sing it with no feeling at all Just sing it with no feeling at all because I think he he knew that I was feeling so deeply that in a way The way I was singing it wasn't gonna let the listener in somehow Wasn't gonna give them a chance to feel whatever they were feeling And he really forced me to deaden my voice almost completely and I sang that vocal in a really bad mood Really angry at Tom for making me sing the vocal And I having after I listened to it. I realized oh, yeah, that's That's where the vocal has to be because it's such a massive image and it's such a weird and dramatic Story that you know if I push it down your throat as is my tendency

20:42As a person You don't have a chance to swallow it, you know, and so I think he was completely spot on about that and Tom in so many ways On set yourself on fire and on the five ghosts is a guy who's just led us in the right direction And and made us so much better as a band is he gonna work on the next record too? I think we'll always work with Tom, you know If you find your guy if you find the person who really understands your band and challenges you and respects what you do and has a great relationship with everyone in the band That's a rare thing and you got to hold on to that, you know I think Because of the nature of the way life's gonna be for the next year with Evan and Amy being super busy and me doing Memphis and stuff He may not be around in as total away as he was on the five ghosts

21:28But I can't really imagine making a stars record without Tom at fall touching it somehow Are you gonna do a run for Memphis? You're gonna come through again? So you know if anybody's interested will come I mean I'm really happy we're on arts and crafts Because obviously it's an amazing label and it's first Sort of legit label Memphis has gotten a chance to be on when we were on paper bag back in the day They were really fledgling and really young and didn't have a lot of resources So this is the first time we'll be on a label that can actually give us a bit of a push and and Yeah, we you know hope to be at the starlight in spring. Hey, there you go. You know our rooms here. Nice. Oh, yeah, man Do you mind know your room? You can't have been doing this for ten years. Yes, it's a good point I know where the bathroom is in every club in Edmonton Good to know that you mentioned I didn't know if I was gonna bring this up

22:15But you mentioned it so I'm going to so how come the Memphis record of arts and crafts, but the stars one isn't? Well because why is that's interesting? It's basically just like stars, you know had had this amazing relationship and continue to with arts and crafts We'd done what we did with them. We'd spent years doing it. We'd gotten to a point with our career where we were financially able to Pull it off on our own and given the state of the music industry today and the way people buy records It was just made sense for us to try and run our own shop, you know like so many people are doing now But on the other hand, I love working with arts and crafts. I love working with Jeffrey Remedios and So we wanted to keep being creative with them and stay a part of that family

23:03So they were kind enough to to put the Memphis record out But it was you know, I think it was so much less about leaving arts and crafts and so much more about Going towards something new for stars, you know ten years is ten years And I think if you want to keep going in anything You have to reinvent it and you have to keep trying new things and you have to keep experimenting so that was really the rationale for doing what we did and And as far as Memphis goes or anything else that you know I happen to make I'll always hope that arts and crafts will be interested in doing it because You know without them. I'm not here talking to you. Fair enough We do something I Don't even know how I'm going to explain this on the website There's like a voting session where we throw three songs up and people can vote on whichever tune they want

23:52Right, so we're gonna throw three star songs up before I air this interview later today cool So I was wondering if whichever one wins you could give me a song clip for so I'll name you three songs And maybe you could just give me like a little storytellers about the three songs and you bet whichever one will play Well, we'll start with the new song fixed Fixed is one of my favorite star songs because it sounds a lot like new order And I'm that's all I really ever wanted to do was be in a new order cover band And it's also one of my favorite star songs because I don't sing on it, which is always a sweet relief to my ears But that was one of those tunes, you know, it's like a really easy tune to write I think it just kind of fell out onto our laps and while we do have a tendency as a group of people to sometimes obfuscate and overcomplicate with fixed we really left it alone and just let it sing and I

24:41Think it's one of our better straight ahead pop songs that we've ever written you made a joke about Not being about being happy not singing on it. Do you feel left out the one away like that? No, man. No, I mean, it's you know, it's hard to explain how stars work, you know, but all I can tell you is that every tune we've ever put out is Could not have been the tune it was without the five people involved in making it, you know, makes sense and Going through the process of writing and recording a song It's it's just there's so many steps to it and so many levels to it and along the way every single person in our band Has the right and has the obligation actually to touch it, you know I meant more in a live setting though. Yeah, I mean then I get to play keyboards

25:29I mean, it's it's it's a sweet relief, you know, because singing is a physical activity and right? No, I mean, I've just never felt that way about any tune we've done because it's just It's stars. It's us, you know We've gone out of our way in every single way that we can since the beginning of this band we split everything five ways and you know, we don't really talk about who does what because everybody does everything and You know, I fixed this there's there's a song. It's like, okay I didn't have much to do with the creation of that physical song, but like if I'd never played bizarre love triangle for Seligman in 1992 You know, he would never have thought about that song that way, you know, so it's not just like sitting in a room writing a song It's like being 15 years old together and playing records for each other and

26:18Conversations we had 25 years ago and all these things come into play in every song we do so You know, they're all a part of us How about one you sing on then take me to the riot take me to the riot that was an interesting one because we had the verse and then we had the chorus and they were two separate songs and Evan actually encouraged me to try and jam them together into one song and We had the hook in the verse like I really liked the verse hook that sort of skoo-boo-boo-boo-boo-boo I like that beat and They had this weird five four chorus And you know, they're music nerds So they were super excited about having a chorus in five four because a lot of people don't do that Which means you have five beats in the bar instead of four beats, you know, it's kind of unusual for a pop song to have a five four chorus

27:09so We just had two hooks that seemingly didn't match but somehow through the brilliance of the instrumentalists in our band they managed to make those two things fit together and and you know lyrically speaking it's pretty much Classic territory for me. I like writing about desperate people in desperate situations and About bad people who are in love because I think that's what's so interesting about love It's an a moral force. It doesn't you know, you can be the best person in the world and never find love you can be psychopaths and have a girlfriend love is Love is blind and it comes for all of us and it leaves all of us and You know, it's just a song about Two desperate people who only have each other and they're kind of destroying one another, but that's all they've got. I hope they picked that too

27:59And that was good. Yeah The big hit ages beauty age was beauty is that the big hit? Yeah, I think those three songs seemed equal and hitness to me age was very influenced by Jimmy Shaw from metric Who I think initially played the drum part when we were demoing it? He came up to North Hatley when we were making set yourself on fire and was kind of helping us hook things up and just hanging out with us He's a lot of people don't James touches a lot of records that people don't know he's on He's an incredibly helpful person and once you get him into a studio or around musical interest Instruments, he basically can't help himself. He has to get involved so I Whenever I hear age list, I think of Jimmy Shaw because he gave us that pounding drum beat and

28:47I think he gave us the confidence to kind of You know go my bloody Valentine with it and and make it a noisy song Because it's such a beautiful melody that Amy is singing and it's such a gentle melody And I think the song works because it's a rock song with a melody that's sort of like Bach or something You know, it's a classical melodic melody Well before I let you go because I got a Tommy Colin here you bet we've done this I don't want to screw over Tommy Chum. No, no one does We've done this before five quick questions one more answers. Okay, rotor studio Road with my own bus for the studio in it. Oh nice. There you go. Landon or McCartney

29:34See and You know what just to be controversial today. I'm gonna say McCartney. I thought you're gonna say Ringo or something He does get this you get this man you try writing Eleanor Rigby see how you do. Yeah His problem is he lived Exactly Exactly, and you know what wings has lots of awesome tunes. Oh the 70s were great It's the 80s where it kind of like oh dude run off the rails a little bit Yeah, but you know hey, we all have our moments. That's true most important thing in a song lyrics melody or cadence Cadence meaning tempo or cadence meaning You vocal melody inflections hmm. I would say the melody is the most important thing Okay in the song song you've written your most proud of proud of

30:22I guess your ex lover is dead because it not because I feel like it's the best song that I've ever written but because it's a song that seems to mean so much to people and I'm proud that I was able to Articulate something that obviously people needed articulated Is that the one that gets the biggest pop every night? It's the it's the song. I think that is bigger than the band. Do you know what I mean? I do think There's a lot of people with that song on their iPod that have never heard of stars And I love that aspect of that song because to me that's the essence of pop music, you know it ain't the singer it's the song and That song seems to have sort of transcended and the past sized the size of our band I get it. We always feel this feeling of people saying

31:09This is my song. This is the one that speaks about me and my life and that's an incredible I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it right now That's an unbelievable privilege to have articulated something in a way that people can feel that deeply It's pretty lucky thing so I feel proud of that and in one word stars ball Okay, well, yes Evan did shave his head this summer That's true. I've shaved my head and you know why cuz we're going bald. I can do Don't try and fight a losing battle. Save your head stars equals bald

Part 2

0:17All right, take two. Yeah, here we are. That was quick, man. I'm very impressed. It's amazing. So with a cursory glance. Yeah, that's hilarious. So we've talked several times over the years. We did a phone. Yeah. The last time. I remember. Do you really? I remember. Yeah, I do. I do. That's crazy. How have you been? I've been well. How have you been? Good. Good. Very good. I've moved east. And the last time we talked was just before a show in Edmonton, which I think may have been the last star show for a while, unless you've played shows since. We've played a couple of little things, but that was the last, I think, the last show of a tour that was the last tour of ours. Yeah. The last pre-baby show, I guess. Yeah, the last pre-baby show. That's right. So maybe we'll start there.

1:02I mean, I know you have a daughter as well, but how has, I guess, that's a star's baby, though. How has the star's baby changed things for the band? I mean, I don't think it's obviously changed Evan and Amy's life profoundly, in many, many ways. But I don't think it's changed the band. I think it's, you know, Ellington was already around. So we all had a sense of what it was like to have a child around. And I think we were already, like, I think, you know, it's not like somebody had a kid at 22 years old. We were all ready to move on to something other than thinking about ourselves.

1:48And we were also, you know, I mean, we did cut the five goes tours short, obviously, because of Amy not being able to travel. But we were ready to make another record. And I think to sort of the whole period of making the five goes to my father dying and just tough times, like it was a tough time in the band. It was a good time, but it was very tough and painful. And I think that we, she kind of represented a new opportunity, a new chapter and a new sense of happiness, you know, amongst people. So if anything, I think it just made it easier to go on in some way. Because, you know, as Evan has said to me, and I certainly feel this way

2:35with Ellington too, it's like you don't have to ask yourself why you're doing it. You're doing it for your kid. You're doing it to make sure that they have food to eat and parents that are doing something they love and happiness, you know? So you go out and when things seem boring or hard to do or you're tired of doing it, you have a very clear imperative, which is that you have a family to take care of. So there's that too. But it didn't like, you know, alter the way we write songs or the way we talk to each other or anything like that. I really didn't. I was thinking more just, Turey, I mean, you have the luxury of your wife living in Vancouver, I think, still, so you can go. Well, yeah, I mean, we're in Niagara on the lake right now because my wife is an actor at the Shaw Festival, actually. Hold on. So seven months a year here.

3:21And then we, we, we go back. What's she doing? She's playing Head of Gabbler this year and Head of Gabbler. And she's playing, she's in present laughter as well. Two shows at a time. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's what they do here. It's a repertory system. So you do two shows at once. So yeah, we've, we were here. As far as touring goes, that's an unknown because we haven't done it yet. We've played one off shows. We've gotten into the bus for maybe a week, but we haven't done the full on vibe. And we're doing everything we can to get ready for that and to, you know, because I've sort of gone before a little bit with, with the kid. I try to stay on top of things when we get scheduled things.

4:06And I see that maybe it's going to screw over Amy and Delphine. I try and chip in and say, are you sure we can do that? But Amy's a, Amy's a very strong lady. And, you know, she's, she and Evan are very good at, they're a very tight unit. They're good at organizing their stuff. So, and Delphine is extremely happy, natured kid. So I think it'll be all right. That's good. It'll be all right. Well, enough. Well, let's talk about the record. Let's talk because I don't start with the outside because you guys chose an amazing cover. It's my favorite building in Montreal ever since I was a kid growing up there. I was always looking at the thing. Oh, great. Isn't that? Yeah, it's just because it's so different. You don't see anything like that anywhere. It's ridiculous. So ridiculous building. So why does this crazy squares building represent the north? Why is that the cover of the record?

4:52I think what we were trying to say there was that there was a time when Canada was quite a, quite a quixotic and quite a utopian kind of place. In the 60s and 70s, we had the Olympics in Montreal, we had the World's Fair, and we had a very empty country that was pretty prosperous, that had a very open social, liberal tradition. And there were a lot of big dreams in the country and a lot of big public projects and a sense that this was a place that was quite whimsical and quite optimistic and quite dreamy in

5:39a way. And we now live in a place. No, I think we're living in a burgeoning oil oligarchy run by a man who's only avoiding fascism because of the pesky constitution that he is constantly pissing on. And I think we're in the darkest time in this country's history. And so I think that the title and the picture on the front was a, I guess, a subtle way of saying that, you know, Stephen Harper doesn't get to define what the north is. There's a beautiful country here and there's a beautiful culture here and people who believe in something bigger than just selfishness and meanness and money.

6:26And that's what we want to represent and that's the north to us. And so that really is, I guess, the sort of secret message, which I've now given away. Well, I heard you say things like that a few times in interviews. And I kind of wanted to stick on the Harper thing for a second just because the song is a weapon is kind of politically charging away. And I read somewhere you saying political songs are the hardest to write for you. So I wonder why? Is it harder to get those thoughts out because you seem fairly confident talking about it while we're discussing it? Well, imagine if I tried to make what I just said rhyme. I guess that's the thing. And also, you know, you want your records to last and you want your records to not just because not everybody who listens to our records lives in Canada and everybody has a figure in their life, whether it's a political figure or it's maybe their high school principle

7:16or whoever it may be that they feel they are in opposition to. And I think what's tough about political songwriting is if you make it specific, then it's specific and it can have that power, but it won't extend any further than that. And if you make it too vague, then really what are you saying in the end after all? So finding that way of expressing political ideas that doesn't hem you in and doesn't hem the listener in is a big, big challenge. And I've never really taken it on. And I don't think it's something Amy's particularly interested in taking on either. We are as people. We have strong beliefs about culture and about art and about our country and about, you

8:02know, how we should treat our neighbor. But as a band, we're trying to make songs that, you know, the contract we make with the listener is we'll make the music and you can put it into any context you like. You can take it anywhere you like. You can feel anything you want about it. And so we don't want to direct you too much when we're sending you music. We want to give that music to you and let you make of it what you want to make of it. That's interesting. Going into writing then. Do you go in with, do you take out words or do you try and keep things a little vague to keep it more of a listener's perspective? Sometimes I guess that happens. You know, I do find that I tend to use the second person plural a lot.

8:47I tend to use we a lot. I tend to use you a lot. And I tend to use he or she a lot. I try to avoid the word I because for me, I guess, as I say, I think we're a storytelling band. And if you're telling stories, you want those stories to be universal. And ultimately, you want the person hearing the story to think, wow, it's like they're telling a story about me. And so we try and keep our personhood out of the way and kind of hide behind the curtain in a sense. I think that's always been something that stars, you know, we're a little reticent as people, I guess. We're not the most overconfident human beings. And I think for us, music was a way of hiding and also revealing at the same time.

9:36So we try and keep that tension, that balance of maybe revealing things, but also not enough to make you feel like you're just listening to our diary, you know? Who's Chris? Who's Chris? How did he join the band? What happened there? Chris Seligman? No, no, no, McCarran. Oh, Chris McCarran. Yeah, I was like Chris Seligman is the best. You guys have been together for a long time, yeah. Yeah, yeah, he's the dude. Chris McCarran is our sort of savior. He is a musician who lives, has been living in Montreal for years, who played with Land of Talk, the amazing Land of Talk, and who played with the Deers for a while, and has had a reputation around town as just, you know, an incredible player and a gifted person and a beautifully nice relaxed East Coast and Brunswick dude.

10:24And, you know, when you're looking for people, sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you have to dig really deep. And he, we just got incredibly lucky. He was around. He didn't have something to do at the time. We asked him to join us and he was kind enough to join us on this tour and on this album. And he really fundamentally altered the way the record sounds and the number of options we had sonically in the studio. As soon as we started playing with him, just the feeling was so strong and so positive with him that we asked him to come in and play with us on the record. And we had never done that with a guitar player before. We played with Andrew from Apostle a couple of times in the studio. You know, you'd come in for a day or so. I thought Stephen was really in for a little while, wasn't he? Randy? Stephen was in the band, but he never recorded with us.

11:11So yeah, it was the first time where we just, the timing and the whole feeling was right. And he just gave us so much and was so incredible because he really understands guitars. You know, he's the kind of person who can take apart almost every guitar amp that exists and put it back together again and who really loves music and loves. There's a whole aspect of guitar playing that's about understanding tone, about understanding the instrument you're using in relation to the amplifier you're putting it through. And I've never met anybody who has as much subtle understanding of that as Christa. It really took pressure off Evan, who usually was covering the guitar parts. And he's an amazing guitar player as well. But I think found himself often kind of overworked.

11:58Like, you know, he had so much to do on the guitar front that from a songwriting perspective or playing the bass, he was really overwhelmed. And he felt so confident in Chris McCarran that we were able to sit in a room. And for the first time, play songs and record songs fully fleshed out, fully realized. Instead of playing the song with a bass player or a guitar player and then overdubbing that part. So, you know, you can imagine how much more power that gave us and how much more fun it was just to get sit down and record these songs. And just from a human perspective, you know, he kind of exemplifies what a great artist is, which is somebody who never makes it about them, always makes it about the work and brings a smile

12:44and brings a sense of play into the room. He's a beautiful guy. Was he the catalyst then to make this? I read somewhere that you guys worked more together on this record than I guess most. Was that the catalyst to do? Well, yeah, I mean, he definitely like made it so that we were like, okay, we can actually do this, you know, we can actually sit here and play these songs fully realized out of the gates because, as I say, we just had that extra extraordinary musician. I mean, the guys who play in stars like are really, really good musicians. And it takes a lot to keep up with them, you know? So it's me and Amy are songwriters and we're both pretty good musicians, but Evan and Chris and Patty are very trained and very technically proficient.

13:30And so having somebody there playing the guitar who was at that level for them just opened up their options so much. Right. I thought you told me once you only kind of play trumpet. I kind of play trumpet. Now I kind of I've added to my list of things I kind of play. What else do you kind of play? I kind of play guitar and I kind of play piano, but only the songs I write. Like I don't, you know, I'm a completely instinctual. You might even say lazy musician. So, you know, and Amy's a much better musician than I am. She knows how to actually play guitar, but you know, I'm an indie pop kid. I don't I was a fan of music. I'm a fan of music and I think I understand songwriting. And that's about as far as I'm willing to go on praising myself.

14:19Right. Well, I heard you wrote one of these songs on the bass synth. Like what you started one of these songs. Yeah. I pressed a few keys. Well, let's go there because you started the music. What song is that? That's the loose ends will make knots. Okay. But that you know that and that song I love because that song really was just kind of like we were in. That was when we first started working on songs for the record and we were in this beautiful cabin in the Laurentians that we had rented and set up our stuff. And people were just lying around on sofas day after day trying to communicate each with each other through music. So that was a piece of music that was maybe 25 minutes of us playing a riff over and over again. And we took a little section of it and Amy wrote words over it and we turned it into a song.

15:04Just because we felt like sonically it had a feeling of the kind of music that really stars was born out of which was people in a bedroom or people in a living room trying to be friends with each other trying to find a way to continue to hang out and delay adulthood for one more day. You know. Speaking of it. And that's really what we've continued to do. Speaking of adult, you just turned 40. So has that changed anything? Yes. Has that. Has it done anything for me? Well, I don't know. I remember when I turned 20 and I'm about to turn 30. I feel like these are, you know, everyone says they're big milestones. Yeah, they are. You know, they for some bizarre reason. They really are. I don't know why. 30 was a tough one for me. Prepare yourself, dude. It's a tough one. Awesome. Yeah. No, I mean, once you get past it, your 30s are actually really fun.

15:50But yeah, I mean, there's been a lot of big, big shifts in the way I guess I think about things every day. That have to do with more with losing my dad than it does with what age I am. But the two coincided, you know, and what happens is that you, there are people in front of you protecting you from the storm. And when they go, you realize that you never actually knew there was a storm. And that they were so good at protecting you from that storm that you didn't feel it. And then you are hit full on in the fucking face by that storm. And you look behind you and you see people who are expecting you to protect them from that storm.

16:38And that's a scary feeling for a few years. It's a scary thing to know. But then you then you know it. And once you know it, you love it in some way. You accept it. And it becomes sort of the thing you live for. You know, like as I'm telling you this right now, my daughter is walking into the room and she's trying to be very quiet because she's tiptoeing because she knows that her dad's doing an interview. Right. And it's like she's, there's a storm, but she doesn't know it, you know. And that's due to me. And I feel proud of that. Did you write about that storm on this record all? Does that come out anywhere? Oh, really? I mean, I, again, I had to pay to, I write a, I don't really try,

17:29try not to write about what's happening to me. Right. I try to write about what's happening to you. And hope that I get it right. You know, the music that's meant a lot to me in my life and the things that have meant a lot, the reason taught music has meant a lot to me in my life is because, you know, people I didn't know who were from across the world, they made a record and somehow it seemed like they had some sort of supernatural connection to me that it was all about my life and that it dramatized my existence in this way that I could never have done myself. And for me, that's what I, that's what I'm in pop music for. There's a lot of great confessional music. There's a lot of great confessional songwriting. Some of the greatest is confessional songwriting.

18:15Sure. Leonard Cohen springs to mind as someone who's been willing always to bring his own life out for all of us to look at and make of it what we will. But for this band, maybe it's because we're a democracy as a band or maybe it's just who we are as personalities, but we really want to try and be a band that you feel writes for you. And so that's my concern. And, you know, we have this world too that we've built. We have these characters that we occupy and I don't want to abandon them just to talk about myself. I have to tell their story. That's my obligation. Do you write the same way for Memphis? No, I don't think so. I don't think so.

19:00I think that, you know, you might find more clues to the thrilling life of Torkel Campbell in the words of Memphis. A, because, you know, people tend not to listen to Memphis, so I don't have to worry too much that anybody thinks it's, you know, hardly anyone listens to Memphis. And B, because it's just me and my buddy, Chris Dumont, you know, and it's a pretty hermetically sealed world. And when I'm making Memphis music, it really is just like we really don't think about an audience too much. We're happy the small audience. We have exists. We're thrilled with that. But we're really just doing it to hang out and to, you know, to express love for each other.

19:46So it's easier in some way to be more personal in Memphis because, I don't know, it's just the rules. You know, you set up rules. It's like any friendships, right? Or any, some friends you talk about certain things with, some friends you don't talk about certain things with, you know. And I think the same extends in your relationships artistically, you know. I wouldn't want to have every artistic project I embark on be the same because really the artistic project is just an excuse to hang out with the people I love, you know. It's a mode of communication between ourselves. That's a good segue to wrap things up a little bit because of the tour with you guys and metric this fall. Obviously you and Jimmy go way farther back than anyone else in Emily too. Yeah. Well me and Jimmy go back. Yeah, that's true. Me and Jimmy go back to me and Jimmy and

20:36Chris selling and go back to like grade eight. So what's that going to mean? I mean, obviously, I don't think you've toured with them in a while. If not in here, not in here. Yeah. Not in here. So you guys must be really, I was going to be a lot of sharing stages, doing stuff with each other. Have you, have you talked about that at all? Well, I don't know if that's going to happen because, you know, first of all, it's an arena tour. So I know that metric are going to come with their shit extremely tight and with a fully realized show before they even meet up with us. And you know, they're the kind of band like you can't jump on a metric tune. You have to rehearse that shit. But I'm same with stars. One thing we all have in common is the extreme anal retentiveness of our musical, our musical map. But like from

21:23a perspective of just what it means, I mean, it's almost like, I think like I haven't even tried to think about what it means because it means so much. You know, it's, it's really truly one of the most lovely things that has ever happened is that that guy and that girl, those people that, you know, we lived in a shitty apartment in Brooklyn with the only, the only people that kept us going, that kept each other going, were each other for so many years. The only person who made us feel legitimate was Jimmy Shaw. The only person who sang on our record was Emily. And, you know, the only people that like ever believed in our myths

22:14were them. And, and then here we are, you know, and there's going to be thousands of people listening to our music. I mean, it's, it's not often you get a gift that big. So it's really just going to be about every single day trying to reckon with how lucky we are to have that time with our friends where we all get to say, we actually did this thing, you know, that's a good closer, pretty special thing. Yeah. Well, as always, we're going to do five questions, five quick questions when we're answering. I know you got another interview coming up in five minutes. I'm going to let you go. I love the five questions. Yeah, the same ones as always, but they haven't been for MSN yet. So I'm going to do it. Yeah, but I've changed. I've profoundly changed. Let's find out. This is around three. Yeah, rotor studio. Studio. Leninger McCartney.

23:04Can I say read? Read. Read. Oh, is it Lou? Yes, that's a new one. Yeah. I'll hear Harrison or neither, but Lou read is a first. I like that. Okay. Yeah, I'll say Lou read. Yeah. Cool. This one might be a new one for you though. When you hear a song, what usually hits you first, lyrics, melody, or rhythm. Hmm. Interesting one. I would say rhythm. Cool. Song you've written your most proud of. Song you've written your most proud of. You know, I'll be totally honest with you. The last one I wrote, which is what it's always the last one I wrote. Which I heard you were working with Chris this summer. So it was a Memphis tune? Yeah, it's a Memphis tune. Yeah. And and and and like I'll

23:51probably write one today and that'll be the one I'm most proud of. Cool. That's one of the I really, really hate myself. Like I really do like ask anyone I know they'll tell me tell you that I really do hate myself. But the only thing I've ever felt confident about is like every tune I write, no matter how shitty it is, I'm absolutely convinced it's brilliant. That's good. I don't know what that is. It's some sort of autism I have, but I really dig my own shit. It's quite discussed. That's like me picking up a guitar. I always think it's amazing that my friends like, yeah, it's like that is incredible. And everyone in the band's like actually dude, it's not that amazing. You could really spend some time on it. I'm glad you had those people too. They're the ones that bring you back to reality. You need to be able to go and check. Chris Sellagman, that's my guy. That's your guy. My ego checker. And in one word, stars, family. That's a good

24:42one. I like that one. I think Amy told me that one's actually so it makes sense. That's what we are. Amazing man. Well, always a pleasure talking to you. I love the record. I've listened to it like four times now and I can't wait to see you guys in November. Thanks so much for the support, brother. Anytime. Yeah, take it easy.

Part 3

0:00You just say it, you say it. No, you say it. You're way better. No, no, no, no, you go man. I'll throw him for a loop Take one Hi, I'm At the same time one One two you go for all right. I am Pat and I'm Chris. You're watching MSN exclusives From stars and one more time. Take two take two Ah Right the cue all right here we go. I am Pat and I'm Chris from stars And you're watching him. It's em It's gonna be one of those moments isn't it? Oh, yeah, here we go Hi, I'm Pat and I'm Chris from stars and you're watching MSN exclusives Hey, it's about with him is a Nazi a stars

1:17Hey, how are you guys doing? Very good. Thank you. Yeah on the road. You've done the world watch Few weeks now, I guess consistently since September though pretty much It feels like a one smooth arc. Yeah, that's good smooth is good and an arc moving up Or are we on the downswing of the arc? We're coming we're crest coming down almost on the cycle almost on the run coming down the mountain What's it been like having a baby on this run? It's gonna be different having a nice nice baby running around any band on the road bring a baby It's an amazing phenomenon. How does it change things? Has it changed things? Well, you're aware of kind of the How profound life is in a way, okay, so that makes everything very deep thought okay Baby we were maybe I was thinking more like the baby has to go to sleep before shows and things like this

2:05But if you want to go that deep, you know, there is that element, but we don't really deal with that like Amy and baby sitter. So you're just kind of like looking at a New life all the time. Yes a beautiful child does morning baby noises It's a savior. It's a godsend compares to the what was happening before or you know people are just you know rolling out of bed But the baby it's you know, it makes you happy first thing in the morning. It's a great way to start today. Good recommend it Everyone should have babies ever name your amazing them. It's a lot of work for them. Yeah, sure They're doing multiple multiple duties. Yeah, I don't know how they do it actually Evan wakes up and has to like Feed her obviously and then make sure she's being entertained like taking her to

2:55Museum like children's museums like figuring out where to go in each city and 730 in the morning So two evenings of sex and death. Mm-hmm. We're just we're talking before very dramatic Where did this come from why why are we doing these shows like this? And what does that mean? Well, I Know a lot of the blood on one shot. I think it's been the theme of the band philosophically since it's Inception would you say? Now that you know ten years later looking back. I guess so yeah, we needed some sort of Some sort of hook some sort of gimmick for our and then also a reason to learn some old songs and some new songs, you know because people continue to come and see us play and we feel as though

3:49We should try and up the game a little bit and do a little work You know work a little bit and learn some old new songs and it's you know, we've beefed up the set That's quite a bit it was a challenge. Yeah, I mean I we did too because I think we wanted to push ourselves a little bit and just I guess Keep have the presence of the band happening in the world I Don't know why but We decided to do and then it was like oh my god. We have a lot of work to do. Yeah, we have five days And we really wanted some we wanted the nights to be a lot different So that's where the work came in. Okay, and one hand I think

4:35It's a little uncomfortable like to push yourself that way, but I think it's made us We've learned a lot from it. I think shows will be Pretty pretty cool in that way just to have just have such a mix of tunes, you know Fans don't really know what they're doing most the time. Yeah, we learned in all in all these you don't know why you're doing things Or you don't know why you're playing two shows. You don't know why there's crew here You get an idea or an idea happens someone gets an idea and suddenly here you are. Yeah, so As much as it seems Like a conscious thing it's completely not okay Is it that way for songwriting too? I think so. I mean depending on who it like

5:22Who you talk to in the band? Well you connect these things first. Yeah, just It just kind of happens like I don't You can each kind of like you just it's like a thread starts and then you follow the thread and We never sit down with a direction Ever it's weird. Yeah, no one ever comes in and says hey I've got this direction So as much as it seems like we're really conceptual where I mean In some ways we're not shooting ourselves. I don't know what I can't decide sex and death sex and death Um You know they feel they it's weird because they feel actually the two nights feel distinctly different only enough why is that Well, we're gonna have a plate there. We've been playing for a long time

6:09We're getting a little complacent. I think not complacent, but we were comfortable and then so doing these two nights enforcing ourselves to Try and express a different tone on either night I think it just gives a little bit of an energy and each night you just feel differently the songs are you know It's like a new a new thread So we tried to wait when we did the setlist we're kind of tried to single out the songs thematically that We're more related to death's like dead hearts is on the Just the second night the death night death to death we tried to do that as much as possible But there is some Carryover like you want to just hear your ex lovers dead Both nights if I think if you're a fan that's interesting and you want to play that song because people react

7:02Feels good when people react well The new record like this is the first time we played Toronto really with the new record so Where we wanted to play as many of songs from the new record each night as well So it's just those two things are happening thematically Sex and death and also this is the north. This is like our Their home record even though it's like eight eight months later. This is The one this is the north for For Toronto is are there songs from the new record that have worked out better than you would have thought live Are the songs that didn't work out as well as you would have thought cuz I always happen to the record some bands Just end up not playing certain songs Yeah, there's a few that I mean the way we wrote the record to we played a lot of it

7:51Live so I think the transition to playing live work a lot better for easier a lot of these songs It was easier Because we had made decisions in the recording process that were kind of based on just playing together As opposed to like trying to figure that out later. That's what you've done in the past usually the process in the past is pretty daunting We weren't really sure what we're supposed to do but this time it was I found a remarkly We just walked in and okay, how are we gonna do this? I'm gonna play the song well Well, there you go. There's how you play the song is It's pretty straightforward and that really sounds liberally a lot of pressure Yeah, we're gonna be a guitar player too, and he really helps because you could flush out ideas Organically a lot easier because you have like another member that you trusted and

8:41Understood your aesthetic as much as Everyone else in the band Yeah, I wrote an article with torque and I guess when the record came out we were talking about Chris joining the band Mm-hmm, and what about what about you with guitar? I hear you brought a guitar on the road. I don't know I My dossier here. Oh one sheet dossier. I think I'm just Guitar players are so cool. I'm like, you know What I can learn guitar too, and I can be cool Are you learning the answer you don't know how to play it and then you're kind of teaching yourself I always kind of knew but I just I got to the point where I just wanted to stop being Kind of I wanted to push myself to do something

9:28That was hard for me and to because I grew up playing French one. I kind of It's similar to that like I just As a kid I was like I got it Somehow trying to figure out how to play this instrument so it's kind of something that I it's good for me just to In my life to have that so I that's Kind of turning into my French horn in my head. It's a very private personal thing because You know we all we're on we tour together so much And we're together so much we're family, so it's just something The kind of allows you to be off the ground world a little bit. I'd love to learn to play I don't have the discipline or I'm out there. I try and be liberated and free. He's really good

10:14He goes off and you can hear me thinks he's being secret Where would you can't get anywhere far enough away that we don't know what's going on and so you hear him Chugging away, it's really it's inspiring I'm writing tunes like I'm recording Vocal and guitar So that's kind of it. I'm so stars are for a different for your own for me Project what's your own project? Kiss the railings so I spent the last month recording like three tunes and it was kind of cool because it's just so different Is it just for yourself or are we gonna hear them at some point? We'll see okay? Okay, we'll see too. Who knows I think you I mean I'll put it up on bandcamp or something nice

11:00You're saying this is not a good segue at all but you before you were saying this is the first time playing Toronto really for the record But I say you guys with metric a few months ago Opening for metric tour. Yeah, so what was that I talked to talk before the tour He was thinking it's gonna be really cool and everything and then I talked to Emily and Jimmy about it They were saying there's gonna be a lot of it was at the show here They're saying there's gonna be a lot of tears that night So the last one in the show, so what was it like playing with like a childhood friend after all those years? Oh, you're welling up a little bit It was pretty surreal I'd say I mean arenas and big Productions and You try and Try and hang on to each moment as much as you can because everything's gone by so fast so

11:50It was pretty pretty incredible You guys got to go I just got the wrap up so five quick questions one more to answer Yeah, I don't know where you went he was there a second ago Five quick questions one more answers rotor studio one more time road or studio For your personal happiness yeah Road I'd say road Leonard or McCartney Cartney Leonard when you hear a song it usually hits you first lyrics melody or rhythm rhythm Melody Song you've written your most proud of and I consider drum parts writing Stars but people probably know the stars

12:45Road that someone else is I really a part of that? Oh, I don't know your ex lovers dad just because it It seems to resonate with people True emotional ridiculous part that I play in that song I have to agree Okay, I got away from murder on that one And in one word stars fine family. Oh, he win you win Seligman Have to go sick Sick isn't stars ill or isn't good. Oh, yeah