Jian Ghomeshi

0:24Oh, Jean, thank you very much for sitting down right here. Matt, thank you. I'm a little thrown off. Yes, we've switched positions if people watch the podcast. If this is the bridge of the enterprise, and like... I know, I feel bad. I just feel like I've abdicated my chair, I'm the captain normally, and now I'm in Uhaura's position. But you're the guest? In this case. Uhaura was sexy. Well, I'm glad you think so. It must be very... You don't think so? I don't know, Star Trek. You don't know Star Trek. I'm sorry. I had a life story. I was a Star Trek geek, but you've never seen it. I've seen a couple of episodes here and there. I know the main characters. Uhaura is not a main character, for example. Wow. She's a beautiful black woman, like the African woman on the show. The original series. She has a red dress and has her hair

1:14pile on her paw. Oh, I'm glad you're likening yourself to her then. I consider myself the Uhaura. Canadian Radio-Casting. So it must be a very introspective time for you, with the Chatter Rires in last week. You must have been going through your life a lot. People asking a lot of questions about stuff that you're usually asking the questions, not answering the questions. I suppose so. I suppose so. I feel like it's not necessarily more introspective in the sense that doing a program like I do is personality driven to a certain extent. So I'm always putting myself out there in one way or another and always getting a lot of feedback. You know, usually sometimes positive and sometimes about how I said a word wrong or something.

2:07So I, you know, there's a fair bit of self-examination that goes on in daily basis. And we're going to do a little bit today. And let's start with music because you started in music. Do you remember that first record you listened to that you decided this is what I want to do? That's a good question. Thank you. I mean, who's the one coming from you? I guess. Well, I definitely, you know, it's a cliche for me to say I like Bowie, but there was a guy named Mike Ford who I would go on to play with him in Moxie Fruviss. He's a few years older than me and he was dating my sister. And you know, he was very familiar with David Bowie and

2:53Bowie's back catalog and particularly these albums that came out in the 70s and that I was too young to get when they actually came out. But when I started, really started to get into Bowie's Berlin years, which would be three albums that came out in 1977, 1978. It was the 80s when I got into it, mid 80s, but it was larger, low, and heroes. That was a really inspirational for him. Like that was, that really hit me hard. I was actually, because Moxie's not really a Bowie kind of band. I guess there are a few things that are reminiscent, but I mean... No, we probably, no, I don't think people would listen to it and go Bowie. But I mean, there's a lot of

3:42things people wouldn't know about that are also influences. I mean, by the time we were doing Moxie Fruviss, especially at the beginning, I mean, Moxie Fruviss's sound evolved too, but we were all instrumentalists and we were all people who had a variety of interests and we intentionally decided to start using our voices and percussion and doing street theater. So our influences weren't necessarily exercised. And then there was stuff like I got into the band and Beach Boys, you know, 20 years later, but you know, Pet Sounds came in. Those kind of seminal records that going back and rediscovering the more big part of Moxie Fruviss and the Beatles. But for me,

4:30it would Bowie's has always been definitely at the top. You see your dream guest then for the show? Well, I make the joke about Bowie, you know, I've never met him and have an interview with him and yeah, I think he'd be, I have seen him do a couple of interviews and he's really smart. He's really sage and he has a great perspective. He's a bit of an oracle Bowie. I know where the future is. So I would love to interview him, but because there's so much anticipation, you know, because he's the guy that, you know, I've wanted to interview, I kind of worry a little bit about the back end. Like after I interview Bowie, what will I do with my life? So I figure like I have to,

5:19you know, that'll be your rosebug kind of thing. I have to do Bowie before I'm going to take a hiatus or something, you know, take 10 years off after I interview Bowie. So it would be just because I know it'll be a big deal for me. And then what if I interview Bowie and it goes badly? Or what if I interview Bowie and he just isn't very nice to me? It would just crush an entire lifetime. This hits on the piano makes funny like an extra, makes a little song about you. Yeah, actually that would be awesome. That would be a good shot. Talk about the transformation from songwriting to Brock. I know you wrote a column in the newspapers. You've done some corresponding on TV. And now you've got Q for three years. Very different ways to communicate and songwriting as well as communication. Talk about the transformation for you and what you prefer. Well, it's a good question, but you know, they're not necessarily different ways to communicate. I mean, it all comes from

6:07the same well. I feel I'm an artist in the sense that I feel like I have to be doing something creative to be happy. Exploring some form of creativity. Obviously that's more nakedly found in songwriting, you know, where you can literally cathartically express yourself through lyrics and writing pieces of music. It's harder to like break up with someone and then do a great radio show to get through it. But it really comes from the same place. I mean, in terms of writing for newspapers or like a column or performing and writing songs,

6:58the show I do both radio and television. It's a performance to a certain extent. And I'm very involved in the writing of the show and my monologue off the top and in some of the, it's obviously a live, spontaneous show. So I feel like it feeds my creativity to a certain extent. I don't think I could do something. I really respect people who read the news or something. I don't think I could do something that would just be me sitting reading on a teleprompter. It just wouldn't satisfy me ultimately. So what looks like an eclectic trajectory is actually kind of tied together. I mean, even when I first started doing broadcasting, it hasn't been that

7:43long really. And doing radio and people were like, wow, it just seems so natural. And it was kind of like, yeah, I've been performing on stage for 15 years. And I'm doing improv. With Fruvus, a lot of what we did on stage was banter that was improv. And so I feel like that was partly a training ground. You asked Tegan and Sarah this, and I wonder for you, does it feel like a job now or is it still fun? Well, my answer is actually the opposite of Tegan and Sarah's, because their answer was, it's always been a job. And we're realistic about that. Mine is, I don't want to do anything that feels only like a job. I really believe people should be

8:35pursuing their passions and doing what they love. And that's been my mantra. I only want to do things that I don't want to do. I don't want to do anything for reasons other than being inspired, you know, which doesn't mean that it doesn't feel like a job sometimes. I mean, I come in here and sometimes just getting up and looking at the show ahead or thinking about the other things I do can feel like a job. But overall, it feels like an adventure and education and sometimes a really challenging one, sometimes a gratifying one. But yeah, you know, the truth is, Matt,

9:24when it starts to feel like a job, it ever feels like a nine to five job. I'm gone. And that's what I've done in the past. I mean, if I've ever done something that just feels like a job, because I don't want to lose my own energy and incentive for a venture in education, you know. What would you do? Well, what I do well, and just do that? Well, have you seen me swim? No, but I'll race you one time. It's more hard for what I do. Synchronized swimming. Work wasn't DFA for you. A fair bit. It's, you know, sometimes it comes very naturally. Sometimes it doesn't. I should say I have a great team that works on to, like, you know, the best

10:16folks in the business. I really think like a young crew of producers and writers and there's two people in particular who work on the monologue with me. So, thank God, because they have ideas when I don't sometimes. And so sometimes it's a co-production. You know, today I did something about how the meaning of Groundhog Day has changed. Who will speak for the Groundhogs? Who will speak for Wires and Willy? You know, I will. And that was actually an idea that came up from Sean Foley, who's our director.

11:02And he wrote some, you know, sort of an idea of where to go with it. And then I kind of took it and turned it into a Gianni's monologue. But so I get help. But then sometimes I'm really opinionated. Sorry. The Grammys yesterday. I just had so much to say that one I had to write myself just because to exercise my Grammy demons. Right. And we'll get back to the Grammys. I do want to discuss that because there's been a lot of uproar about everything that went down. It was the most controversial one that I can remember. But what do you go into an interview with? What do you mean what do I go into? Well, what's written on your paper? I know you have a lot of papers here sitting around. Yeah. And all that. What's written on my paper? There's an introduction,

11:49which I usually read. I know it's, and that's partly written so that I don't get it wrong. So, I'll get facts from. Because the live show, there's a lot going on. So, I don't have a telephone. And then there's a list of questions that I develop with my producers, with whoever's producing that particular segment. And I usually have a sense of where I want to go with the interview, what the arc is going to be. I definitely know what the first question is going to be. Depending on the interview, if it's a tight, current affairs-ish accountability interview, that's like three questions. Why did you do this? What do you think of people saying that you're wrong?

12:37I might more tightly follow up the question line that we've developed. But usually, and especially if it's a feature interview, I go with question number one and I sort of let it go where it goes. So, I have a general arc. I know where it's going to, where I want the interview to go. But it's important to let the interview, the dance, develop its own rhythm. And sometimes, it's going to move into directions that you are planning. That can be very fruitful. So, so it's usually a combination of improvisation, calculation, and scriptation.

13:24Scriptation. I want to write the script. That's the songwriter in you coming out. The layup rhymer in me coming out. Well, I saw you tweeting about the Grammys and everyone was talking about Taylor Swift can't sing. That's the big thing. Taylor Swift, oh my gosh, you can't sing. Well, obviously, she couldn't sing. It was just, you know, it's a marketing package. Did you not know that? Did you not realize that before? No. You think she can't sing at all? I think it was really evident that Sunday. I think there were times. Maybe it was just a bad night for her. I don't know. Well, now you're changing. Because at first, she said it's obvious she can't sing. But it's been going on for a while. Like, you listen to people at Bob Loeff just talked about this. Yeah, people have said, well, Loeff says it was really hard on her. He says, in her career. Yes, he did. You know, people have said that they've seen her before and she's

14:12had a tune. So that's interesting. My assumption was honestly, I don't think she has a great voice. I don't think she's a great singer, especially on a night where you see Celine Dion, Jennifer Hudson, Beyonce. I mean, these people can sing. They can sing. It's like Celine Dion. We all kind of joke about her idiosyncrasies and sometimes and her overblown songs. But when she got up in that Michael Jackson tribute, it was like, by the way, I'm the best singer in the room again. And she was. She was a phenomenal. I don't think Taylor Swift has a great voice. But I find it hard to believe that she's that bad. Like she was tragically south of the notes. She was singing flat. And so that suggested to me that

15:03the mix in her inner monitors was not working for her. In other words, she maybe had too much of herself or not enough of herself or the band was the tuning was difficult for her to find somehow because she did sound terrible. And I just don't think even in an age of manufactured, manipulated, auto-tuned vocals on record, it's hard for me to believe that Taylor Swift is that bad. First of all, it's hard for me to believe Taylor Smith is a bad book. But to believe that Taylor Swift is that far off the notes is just a

15:54stretch. So I thought it was a combo of the fact that she doesn't have a great voice. It was live unlike some of the other stuff on that show and unlike so much of what we used to see the Super Bowl or any big live shows where it's either singing the tape or it's auto-tuned. It was a combination of not having a great voice but I think there was something going on with the mix. I think if she heard it back, the Bob Lefs said she didn't even know, she probably wouldn't even know the difference. I don't think so. I think if she watches that performance, she'll be mortified. And I'm giving her the benefit of the product.

16:46Anything else jump out of you for that night? A lot of things jump out of me. Like what? Well, you saw my tweets. I thought it was a reminder to a certain extent of how out of touch that level of the music business and the academy can be with not with popular tastes or engineered popular tastes. I mean, it's no secret that the big winners of the night or the people who've solved the most records. But I would have touched with a lot of great art that's being made out there. And I thought that there was an interesting distinction to be made between the issues that I had were

17:33with the telecast. The Grammys themselves have quite a wide swath in terms of the categories and the people who are nominated. I mean, Beast was nominated in the Canadian Montreal kind of electro duo, and Leonard Cohen and Yion and Diana Kroll. But it was what gets on the telecast. It was just unnerving. I mean, really do we have to see Black Eyed Peas again singing that song? The answer is no. We really don't need to see them singing that song. And when that takes away from, if not exposing and celebrating a young new artist, but also from, you know, a tribute to say Leonard Cohen, I think it sort of absurd. So that was just like the profit

18:24mode. You never talked to Bowie. We'll go and make up for it. That must have been quite a... No, Leonard Cohen's one of the best, one of the greatest moments for me in interviewing, but not Bowie's. Bowie's. Bowie's, Bowie. Oh, we'll end up where we started. Thank you. Appreciate it.