Gavin DeGraw

Part 1

0:00I'm going to be a .3 CJIQ. Matt Schichter, you're here with B.B. King. How are you doing today, sir? I'm fine. Thanks, how are you? I'm very well. I'm doing more than fine. I'm sitting here with B.B. King on his bus and we're going to start the show off. Pick any tune of all time. If you could hear one song, what would it be? Willa Nelson, always on my mind. Very good song. We'll start the show off with that. Here it is, 88.3. And we're back with B.B. King. What do you love about music? Well, they're telling me that music sews as the savage beast. And I guess it's a little beast in me. Yep. We've heard it on every medium, records, to tapes, to CDs. And now we have downloading and digital music. When you listen to a record or when you record, what do you want to record to? Do you wish there were still vinyl around that you could record to? Oh, no. You prefer CDs now? Well, there wasn't no cause and an airplane around when Jesus Christ was here.

0:46Oh, watch it. I want to stay back, way back. Fair enough. I think that the world is changing and people are changing. Music is changing. And we should progress. We should get the best sound as possible. And I like to hear the best sound that I can hear. Yeah. Are you into downloading and all digital music? Well, I download my own things. I have about 4,000 vinyls that I've bought. And I download them for a lot of them. They didn't re-release them on CDs. And I have them when I'm home, setting things up when I hear. I never download off an internet or something like that. Fair enough. You talked about music changing. The culture started off with blues to rock and roll and then funk came out.

1:32Now we have hip hop. I was just wondering what you thought. All of those are titles and names that people give very true. But at the same time, just the culture, black culture. Are you happy with the way it's going? I mean, you were one of the pioneers, I would say. I'm not so happy with some of the way guys, the lyrics that I hear. I love women. I've loved them all of my life. And when people start talking about what they're going to do and how they do it, my mother was a woman. I have daughters, granddaughters, have friends and a lot of them. So some of those lyrics I don't like. But the young people are very talented. Very, very talented. Even the guys that use a lot of the words that I detest, but they still are very talented.

2:19Very talented. But to me, that's like making a movie and you have to use nudism to sell the movie. Good point. Very good point. Typical day for be-be-be-can you say you love women? Are there still groupies on your bus? I've never had groupies. Never had groupies. I don't know who groupies are. You know, just random girls after the show? No, that's never been with me. I've dated a lot. I don't like girls. I like women still like them. I think they're God's greatest tradition. Yeah. I'm having to be a male. Not a gay male. I understand that. I understand that. What's the typical day for you? During the day. What do you do from wake up? Until you play the show when you wake up. What's a day like for you when you're on tour? Oh, my. It's just steady. All right. What do you study? Music. Music. Music. Music theory.

3:05Stuff like that. Writing music. Music. Music theory. And I didn't finish high school. I didn't go to college as you. So I have my buddy right here. This is my tutor. Yeah. Laptop. I've had a lot of soft way on it. Stuff to learn with things. Very nice. And I see the band every day. Every day we're together. Practically. Do you guys just jam like when you want to hear a song? No. No. Don't do that. We don't jam. We rehearse on this time and things to rehearse. But we play nightly so we see each other every day. And usually we stay tight by having a chance to do what we do. It's a business. Yeah. It is. You traveled all over the world. You played nightly. I couldn't say all over the world but I traveled 90 different countries.

3:50I understand it's 250 but we traveled 90. That's a pretty good count though. Favorite city to play? My favorite city to play? Yeah. That's like asking a person, a kind of sort of food show would say. Which is the best greens or cornbread for one. Each city has something that's good. I love playing Toronto. I like playing Vancouver. I like New York and then I like Memphis. My little hometown is very small but then you know it's still like. I live in Las Vegas and I like that too. It's hard to say. It's just to me when there's people that seem to enjoy larger small crowds and those outdoors is when it's comfortable.

4:38It's always fun for me. Cool. I'm your name 20 people. Just one more answer if you could. Rachel. One of my dearest friends. One of the greatest musicians I've ever met. Have you seen the movie by any chance? Yes I have. What do you think? I thought it was well done. Jamie Fox did a very good job. But you know who I think should get a real prize out of? Who's the lady that played his mother? Have you seen it? Yeah I have seen it. I liked it very much. She was very good. I think she was. But Jamie was. We used the word. He was a showstopper and he was very good. But I think that lady was terrific. She was very good. I don't know. I don't know who she was myself but I don't know if she really played.

5:25My mother died when I was nine so I can still remember how real mothers are. It's good to hear. Next one is John Lennon. Oh guys. One of the great creators of our time. Are you a big fan of the Beatles? Oh yes. Paul McCartney. Very rich. I don't know him well but all of the Beatles I met except him. He's the only one I did in me. Money waters. The grandfather. The grandfather of the blues. I think he did more for blues than any of us. Jimi Hendrix. Number one rock and roll guitar as quality was a lie. Today I think Eric Clapton is. Agreed. Eric Clapton is the next one. Eric Clapton is another good friend and like I said to me he's the number one rock and roll

6:13guitar and he played better blues than most of us. Do you like his new album Mr. John's? I haven't heard his new album. I love about it but I haven't heard it. Dave Matthews. I don't know Dave. Okay. John F. Kennedy. One of the greatest presidents we had that I knew about and I loved was one of the greatest. Who would you say was the greatest in your lifetime? He was. Fair enough. Michael Jackson. I think he's good at what he does. I think he's very talented. Yeah. I have met him but I don't know him. Malcolm X. Malcolm X is a lot of years I thought was a very well educated man, self educated I understand. And would have been a great leader I believe had he lived.

6:58I don't like If and I think that when you can teach and show others that you're a great leader. Martin Luther King Jr. loved him. Bob Dylan. Great. Great. Great. He's a great entertainer I think. He's a master songwriter and he's Dylan. He's Dylan. You too. Oh God. The richest. The kindest. The most talented young group in the world. You like their music? I love the music and love the call of my friend. Those are really great people. I have the DVD of Elwin Hum where you play with them. It's just fantastic. Thank you. Tupac.

7:43I know of Tupac. Never met him. I think like I said to you earlier a lot of the people do a lot of the things that even that I'm not a fan of but they're very talented. And I think Tupac was very talented. He was one of them. Okay. Elvis Presley. The King. I thought you're the King. No he's the King. My last name is King. He is his Presley. But he was the King. He was the King. All right. Little Richard. Good friend. Great show. Smokey Robinson. Smokey? I know not really well but he's another one of those master songwriters. He's written a lot of great songs and he's a great performer. I think he, I thought like Dick Clark. He took good care of himself and looks young even today.

8:30George Bush. Which one? The new one. I think he's a great president. He does what he do. A lot of Americans I think don't always agree with him but he's still the president. You think it's the right thing to do and I don't agree? So, pun? Do you think it's the right thing to do to not agree with the president? That's what makes North America so nice. You can disagree. You ain't in Iraq. You're not in Iraq. Thank God. So that's one of the great things is about being a citizen of this area is we can't do this. We can disagree but respectfully disagree. Last question, one word. B.B. King. All in air guy. God had loved people. Wanna be loved by them. B.B. King, thank you so much.

Part 2

0:00Hey I'm Gavin DeGraw and you're watching MSN Exclusives with this guy! Gavin thanks for doing this man! Thanks for having me! Good to see you! 10 years later! 10 years later man!

0:45And there's race cars behind us, it's the Indy here in Toronto. Lots of cars man! Do you dig race cars? I love the cars! We love the cars! I love cars man! I like racing! Where do you live? Are you in a car city or a subway city? You're New York! You know what, I'm more now in Nashville. Okay, so that's why you opened up the second location. Exactly, we still have the National Underground in New York. That's right there. So what is it for people who are going to Nashville, New York? Yeah, yeah. Tourist destination, what is it? Well, if they're going to New York or Nashville, we have a couple of small bar restaurant music venues called the National Underground. Where we basically want to feature up and coming acts that are coming through town or that live in town. You know, in a couple of great music cities which would be in New York and Nashville of course.

1:30So you can really tap into the local culture and places like that and know that you're going to get great talent. It's the nature of those two cities. Might people show up and see a potential give in the garage surprise appearance at one of the places you never know. You never know. Yeah, I mean, I like to drop in there when I have time off. So I go in there and check out bands, check out musicians. When do you have time off? When was the last time you had time off? I had a day off. A day, okay. Yeah, I get a day off here and there. And I just spent about a week or two in Nashville, you know. Mixing this record or like where's the record up to? Because last I heard there was a bridge, like the last puzzle piece was a bridge that you had to finish. And then the record was going to be done. Exactly. I think we've completed that part now and I was in Nashville over the last couple of weeks and I spent a little time there.

2:15And I went to one of my favorite studios in the world called Blackbird Studio. Yeah, it's Blackbird Studio's just beautiful. It's owned by John McBride, you know, of John and Martina McBride. Wonderful guy, great place. Unbelievable gear they have. So I got on the phone with Ryan Teder and we were really done with the song other than the bridge. So we just need to bang out that bridge. When is it Ryan that compliments your writing so well? Everyone's writing the Ryan Teder these days. He's the guy. He's a really great talent, you know. He's an easy guy to work with because he's just overflowing with ideas. But he doesn't just spill out ideas and say, okay, they're all great ideas.

3:03You know, he's good at, he has a good barometer on what's a good idea and what's just an idea. You know what I mean? So he's a producer of sorts of your writing? He is. He is a producer and but I really find him to be a really strong writer. You know, I really enjoy his songwriting. And his production happens to suit the type of stuff that he writes on, you know, and the type of stuff that we were writing together. Was he on Best I Ever Had? Is that you and him or is that... No, the Best I Ever Had is with Martin Johnson. Who's that? Martin Johnson came out of a group called Boys Like Girls. Oh, okay. Yes. You know what? It's a pop punk group. Yeah, yeah. But I think that Martin's musical taste expands well beyond the ones that he's been playing.

3:49He's still beyond the one genre, you know. But I think that's the nature of this, the business is that the artists themselves, R&S, consumed with the genre, you know, they just want good talent. You know, we like good songwriting and we like good production and, you know, good talent. And so Martin's somebody who's able to blend into other people's genres when he's working with them, you know, and he's a really great, great, great gift that guy. Great guy to work with and I think he'll be seeing a lot more of the same coming up. I do want to talk, my thing died because the sun gave one of those people a single note. Oh man, no. So I lost all my questions. That's all right. Because I love the tune because it's got poignant lyrics, you're talking about drones, you're talking about the war, you're talking about Antarctica. Absolutely. But it's also fun. Thank you. And it's got this like subterranean homesick blues kind of like you're just shouting at rhymes, right?

4:35Oh yeah. Kind of thing. And it fits his train to her because it's almost got Pat's cadence the way he's been rhyming his singles lately. There's a lot of what we wanted to do is we wanted to... A... We wanted to be present. We wanted it to be in the now, you know? And on top of that, you wanted to be something that was reminiscent of what's going on right now stylistically out there right now in the music scene. And there was a lot of things happening stylistically in the music scene. There really are no rules, but there are certain things that are surfacing again and again, at least within the last year or so. One of the things that's been surfacing is the Americana movement. You know? The Lumineers, the Mumford, this and that.

5:20So granted that style of music has been around since before recording music. But it's a moment right now where pop culture's embracing that sound. And that's one of the sounds that I happen to love. So Martin and I started writing according to what that sound was. A quick little, you know, jangly acoustic guitar thing which is, you know, has been used a gazillion times over the last couple hundred years. You know? But we wanted to modernize it and throw in some other production pieces that would bring it to a new place and incorporate some of the other things that have been happening musically. You know, some of the synthesized sounds and some of the big reverb sounds. And you know, there's some... a lot of other flavors in there.

6:07And the horns and stuff. The horns and stuff, exactly man. So the beauty of the landscape right now musically is that there really are no rules. However, however the journey has happened in pop culture and pop music, the ears that are embracing popular sound have become very, very varied in their taste. So as a musician, as a songwriter, I'm very lucky to be in it right now at this moment. Even much more open terrain than there was five years ago or ten years ago or even two years ago. So is the record span genres or does it stay more with us American? No, it does. You like to try and change things up. I like to change things up for sure. So the record itself...

6:52Make a move, is that what it's called? Make a move, yeah. I think that's what we're calling it right now. Okay, cool. That's what I've heard. That was a good one to think. Yeah. But right there, I mean there's another song written with a completely different thing. I mean we're basing it on the acoustic guitar but it's me and Amar and Dan and Benny Blanco. So it's a whole another thing. Benny Blanco, you know from the Maroon song moves like Jagger. So just a lot of different styles. You know I think that the idea of sticking with one particular style as a musician, at least for me at the moment, doesn't really interest me. You know, I like lots of different styles so I do that for myself. You know, I enjoy it. So the topic of styles, your dancer now.

7:37When I can be. Are you adding dancing to the show? I move. I would call myself a dancer. Right. I move. You have more training than most people now I think. You know what, yeah I had a few weeks of it or eight weeks about and I gotta tell you man, doing that dancing with the star show, it really opened me up. So I kind of helped correct the way I stand a little bit. I don't punch as badly as I did. You know I didn't realize when I was up on stage. I said the piano I had a little quasi-modo thing going on. Man I didn't realize you know. But I think that Karina Smerinoff, you know my dance partner from the show really kind of shed light on that for me. You know it really helped me kind of correct a lot of that, that problem I had. So doing this show really kind of opened my mind to that and really opened my mind to the other forms of art.

8:27You know kind of giving that whole thing respect because it's not the easiest thing in the world to do. You know. Absolutely. It's a great great thing. It's a million degrees out here so I'm going to let you go. It's a million degrees boy and you're wearing a black dress. I know I got it. How do you stand it? I'm dying right now. It's unbelievable. It's crazy. So we do something called Five Questions. Five of the questions. One more answer. Yeah. Road or studio? I love the road. London or McCartney? Sure. It's tough bro. I love them both. I mean you couldn't have one without the other for me. I like their solo careers but as the Beatles it was just something else. When you hear a song it usually hits you first. Lyrics, melody or rhythm? Tough to say. I'll tell you the first thing that hit me if it's not good.

9:13A bad lyric. You think like a bad lyric to ruin a great melody? If someone's never heard of it. Or you can get away with a bad melody with a great lyric. If someone's never heard Gavin DeGraw, what song do they start with? No one's ever heard Gavin DeGraw, what song do they start with? For me, a first listen song, I would like them to hear, well there's some of those on the new album but I would say check out the sweeter album and check out a song called Stealing and check out a song called You Know Where I'm At. I'd say to check those two out. Those are in here for me very much and my heart is a writer.

10:02In one word, Gavin DeGraw. A lot of one word album titles. Funny. Funny. Funny is good. How funny. You made me laugh last time. Tell me about Neil Young's stories. I'd love to keep going but we're dying. It's too hot. It's too hot as hell man.

Part 3

0:00So let's start with this. It was just showing me a video of you playing on a plane. Oh, god. That's a different place for a gig. I was like, it was out. It was so cool. It was so cool. But it was scary because we didn't have any gear, you know?

0:47But we were asked, hey, will you do this thing? It would be a cool thing to do. And I said, well, yeah, I mean, it's a great idea, although I would feel a little guilty keeping people captive in a tube and kind of forcing the music upon them. You know what I mean? Because there's nowhere else to escape. I mean, you go to the bathroom in a plane, and that's about it. But there's only so many of those. Yeah, that's fair. You know what I mean? And you're blocking the exits. The plane is right. That's right. Yeah. So what we did was we took the little PA overhead, kind of, you know, the thing that the CB, that truckers you? Yeah. Yeah, and I sang into that. And I had my drummer, like, kind of, I don't know what he was tapping on, but it sounded like a guitar.

1:33He had a little bit of that going on. It was a minimalist. Yeah. And my guitar player, of course, brought his guitar because, you know, those are portable. Drum's not so portable. No, not so much. And piano definitely doesn't. You know, like the little meaty ones or whatever? One of those really corks or whatever. Doesn't matter. Those are weird, right? You know, again, they make a really weird instrument too called a melodian. And I think it's all of you blowing it up. Yeah. Oh, melodica. That's what it is. I'm like, you know, blowing it up like that. But what's the weirdest? I don't think I have the wind capacity for that. Really? As a singer, you figure? No. Yeah, I just, yeah. I'd be focused on my breathing. And, you know, even like the accordion even throws me off because you got to feed it the air.

2:18Yeah. Throws off my rhythm. I was going to go something dirty, but I'm not going to go with the feed. Never mind. Yeah, I understand. I know what you're going to say. I'm going to segue that into what's the weirdest instrument on this record? The weirdest instrument on this record? What was something that was random that you threw on there? I don't know if there were any weird instruments on this record. What was the strangest thing that maybe you haven't put on a record before? I mean, there's a lot of horns on this record. There's a mixture of stuff on this record. I think a lot of that has to do with being so many different producers on the record. But there's things that some producers do that you can't really identify what is happening. You know what I mean? Because they throw in so many different ingredients, you know, that you can't really pick one out and you're not sure. And you start taking a while to guess as like, hey, is that a banjo and a synth and a drum,

3:06you know, at the same time. And they pick and choose certain things to strike at the exact same time. So you can't necessarily pick out one instrument that's playing a part, which is kind of the cool thing about it. So what do you agree to lie with the band? Just say have fun. You guys figured it out? You know, it's tough because I was always very much a purist about performing live. And so I became really consumed with, well, if you can't perform it live, then don't bother putting it on the record, right? Which is a specific way to go about doing things. But it keeps you a little bit, well, I'd say limited as far as what your end result is on a record, you know. And then I started to experiment more with more producers and more people and more players.

3:54And then you start realizing that you can't necessarily make your vision happen without using more and more and more tracks sometimes, you know. And so ultimately what happens is there'll be some songs during the set where you go, okay, we'll run a track system on a few of these songs to give it some more of that size. And I can't bring out 30 people to play on stage. They're simply just not the space up there. And a lot of people would probably have an issue with me taking out 20 buses to cart people around. The environmentalists would go crazy. So anyway, you have to keep a lot of other factors in mind when you're cutting a record.

4:40And then of course when you're performing it live, you try to get the closest to the record that you can. Then at the same time when we play live, we introduce new musical ideas that aren't necessarily on the record. I'll give you the next question. Just listen to the strip record a couple weeks ago. And I was like, I wonder if he's pulling different arrangements up for the old songs, just keep mentioning for yourself, right? Yeah, absolutely. You know, the strip record was an idea that I had come up with my old, my first A&R guy, great guy named James Deener. And I said, you know, I had already released Chariot. And I said, but even Chariot at the time for me felt overproduced because I was a guy who played in bar rooms and played on the street and stuff like that.

5:27So everything sounded overproduced to me. You know, if they had more than three instruments, it sounded overproduced to me. So yeah, I would not have made this record. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I said, I'd like to go in and recut all the songs, you know. He said, cool, let's do it, you know. And so we went in and we recut the whole record. It took one day. And I brought in some guys who I had played with before I ever cut a record, you know. And some guys who had been with me as well for a long time. So I already knew how to communicate with them, you know, my old way. And so that allowed me to take an approach to the songs that wouldn't be heard on the

6:13major release of Chariot because it simply honestly was too low-fi to put out into the world at the time, honestly, you know. So right now I think it would work even better perhaps in the first, the original debut record. But you know, what happens is a taste change. And you know, I think music is a form of the fashion world, you know. The different styles come in and out and certain production styles come in and out. Low-fi is in right now. High-fi was in a few years ago. You know what I mean? And we all keep finding our niches, you know. And I like to play with that, but everybody likes to play with that because it's all part of the guessing game of keeping things interesting, you know.

7:02Yeah. It works for crowd. It works for the crowd. And so what we'll do tonight is we'll mix it up and we won't do the strip stuff, but we will do some reinventions of old songs. So what's changed the most? What song are you working on now that you're like, I kind of wish I'd wrote it that way. Or written there? Are there any? Well, yeah. I mean, I think, well, all of them. I think what happens is you, you know, you, I guess, over time, you know, I guess, I think at this time, you feel like you're getting better at certain things. You know, thank God it isn't sports, you know, because of sports, you just get worse over time. But, you know how it is. It's like, you know, the curve is, you know, once you're past 15, you start declining. You know, with music, you know, a man's voice doesn't really start to mature until he's in his 40s, you know.

7:47That's a good segue to Billy. Which is fascinating. Billy, right? Sure. Cool. Cause he's like, he's still hitting those notes that he hit 30 years ago, right? It's amazing. He's like five years old and he hasn't lost a single thing. I actually think he's improved. He's so comfortable on stage. You know, I... Is that what you took away from the experience? Comfort. Incredible. Just incredible comfort. He, when I was 15, I went to see him perform live. And I, after the show, I got in the car and I remember saying to my family, I said, I think I know what I want to do now. And my father says, what do you want to do? I said, I want to do with that guy. With that guy, I just did on stage, you know. So my father says, and that's what you'll do.

8:34So since then, it's been the journey really inspired by watching him put on a show. Because he was so, he was so comfortable on stage and comfortable with his audience. And his audience felt like they knew him. There was a real camaraderie between him and his music and his fan base. You know. Something I had never seen before. And something that I don't know if I've seen since, really, to be honest with you. So he's so connected to them. You know. There's a real common man likeability in his lyric. And from the perspective of his audience to him, they feel there's a real camaraderie

9:24there. So you've told me something on his lyrics. It's like he's talking to you, telling a story at the dinner table. It really is. It's what you told me like 10 years ago. Yeah. It really is. You've taken that into your songwriting? Are you trying to do that? You know, I always try to compare myself to people much better than me. So it's something that I constantly apply. Yet always feel like I'm just barely accomplishing. You know what I mean? And so it's important. Look, the reality is it's good to have goals. I don't know. I meant more of like telling you. It's good to have goals like that. It's telling a story though. I didn't mean comparing it. Yeah. Because I heard this.

10:10You said you had a bit more of a persona when you're co-writing. You're able to take on a Dylan, right? Like a Dylan. A hundred percent. I think that's one of the... So you're the next Billy Joel. Right. Right. Yeah. So first of all, I do, I think that's a major part of songwriting. I think that a lot of writers use that technique, you know, taking on a character, taking on putting yourself in someone else's shoes and saying, I'm going to be that person for the sake of this song, right? Or their story first person if I can. Or think of an artist and think to yourself, what would such and such an artist perform? What would their song be? What would their voice want to sing? What melody would their suit their voice? And you come up with something like that and write a song from that standpoint or that approach.

10:58And I think that taking approaches like that allows your collection of songs to be a lot more interesting. More diverse. And on top of that, I think one thing that obviously adds to that is co-writing. I was really uptight about co-writing prior to my last record, prior to Sweeter. And Sweeter was my first attempt at actually writing with other people. And so a few of the songs off that record were co-writes and the rest were written alone like I was used to doing on all my other records. When I had a positive experience co-writing and I thought, wow, I never would have written not over you without someone else in the room, without Ryan Tedder in the room.

11:46Or run every time without Andrew Frampton in the room. And I thought to myself, wow, this just never would have come out of me without someone else throwing in their opinions and their ideas too. And so when I went into the studio for Make a Move, I let everyone know that I wanted to continue the co-writing thing because it made writing more interesting. And it made everything happen so much faster. Just expedited the process and alleviated all that strain of you have to get it all done by yourself and you have a deadline and you have to stay focused. When you're in a room with someone else, you keep each other on target.

12:34What songs load the quickest then? For this record? Yeah. God, it's hard to say. What was the hardest one? We'll go to flipside. Make a move took a couple of days of going back and forth across a coffee table with a couple of guys. And I can't tell you how many pictures of coffee we had trying to come up with an idea. I mean, just endless amounts of caffeine going, no, no, that's not good enough. No, that's not good enough either. And that goes on and on and on. What's that? When did the oo's come in? I'm not going to try and sing for it here on song for it.

13:21Oh. I think. It's not funny too the way that works because you see a lot of music where different sounds represent different eras, even vocalizations that aren't words. In the 60s there was a lot of shalala lala las early mid 60s. Right? Yeah, man. Yes. Shalala las. That's early mid 60s style completely. Right? And then the oo thing was I think more of a 70s thing. Right? A 70s R&B thing. Yeah? Oh, that's the thing. And then as top 40 pop music became more urban, those sounds came back into the rock songs

14:11and the other pop songs and things like that. So there's so much R&B, classic R&B in modern rock and roll and modern pop music. As we move forward, as we continue to progress musically we have more and more influences from the past obviously and becomes, you know, we start to recycle things that work, things that stood out to us from older records that we like to listen to and things like that. We find ways to fit them into the stuff that we're writing now, you know. And so you get a... That's not going to get me like... Does. And that is really almost like OJ style, you know. And it's something very, very R&B, like four or five guys getting together, four top style

15:01thing there, but 70s to me. You know, I put you different production styles so it adds a whole other flair to what that would be. I want to keep going with the show starting. I got to let you go. Yeah, man. Sorry, man. Let's do five questions. I talk a lot. Good. Sorry about doing it interview. I like the road. I like the road. Lending or McCartney. Oh, it's tough. You've done these before. I'd say I think that McCartney is highly underrated for how groundbreaking his concepts were. I'm going to give you the proof in the put. The proof is Helter's Culture. That was McCartney. Although I'm a huge Lending fan. One more answer, Kevin. Sorry. A day in the life is my favorite Beatles song.

15:47Yet, Helter's Culture was, in my opinion, the groundbreaking rock and roll song. And that was McCartney. I don't disagree. You what? I don't disagree. When you hear a song, we usually hit you first. lyrics, melody, or rhythm. I'll tell you what stands out to me the most when it's bad. Lyric. Cool. I think that lyric. Lyric. You got to go. Lyric is the most important. The reason is that's what people identify with ultimately. They identify with the subject matter. Yeah, they can feel the rhythm. They can like a melody. But they identify with the lyric. You know what I mean? I do. I want to kick the chalk. Sorry, good. If someone's never heard Gavin de Grov before, what song do they start with?

16:33Oh. Come on. I don't know. I was sold here last time. I sold here I'm really proud of. I think that's what you said. I sold here I'm very proud of. That's a special one. I'm going to feed you the answer so there won't work. Thank you. I sold here to me as a song that I never had to stay in the sun. Well keep playing live. I never had a fair shake. Let it live on. Never had a fair shake. In one word. Gavin de Grov. Yes. One word. Gavin de Grov. Oh. Excitable. That's a good one. Thanks man. Thank you so much man. Nice to see you again. Yeah, you too. Thank you very very much. Cool. Appreciate it. I like your place. This is very nice. Yeah.